99 overalls not progressing?

[fhhs63]

I have a rookie DT who is 99 overall (I know it's unrealistic, but that's not the point). He's only 23, but no matter how good he does, he won't progress. I know you can't go higher than 99, but even his skills are staying the same. How can I get around this? Can I play the whole season as a DT, then before going to offseason change his position to DE, or somewhere where he's not 99?

[fhhs63]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

Yeah, it works to switch position before offseason. Just tried it out and the stats I wanted to go up went up when I changed him to OLB.

[guaps]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

Having 99 overalls in the game is one of the drawbacks of the current ratings system, IMO. As mentioned there is no progression unless you "cheat" by changing the guys position before the offseason.

I personally prefer FIFA's approach (other sports game do this as well, NHL, NBA 2k etc.) where the top rated player is rated fairly low at 90 overall (and there is only one rated 90 OVR of 15,000+ player in FIFA) and only has potential to increase to 95. Also the highest individual rating in FIFA is 96, if I remember correctly, and they are very rare.

Also the overall ratings in FIFA changes when you do small adjustments in the formation. In Madden terms is would be equivalent to an 85 OVR RT not being an 85 OVR LT, or an 82 OVR outside wide receiver not being an 82 OVR slot receiver, or a 78 OVR DE in a 4-3 system not being a 78 OVR DE in a 3-4 system. I really appreciate that about the system, because you actually have an OVR "penalty" for playing your players out of position.

All athletes in all types of sports can improve and the very best are usually also the ones that work the hardest on improving themselves throughout their career. Giving them 99 ratings means one of two things in my opinion; either the ratings system doesn't work as intended if 99 ratings are needed to separate the elite from the good, or that you haven't really understood that professional athletes work their butt off to always improve their game.

[maademperor]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

yes, it sucks madden still doesnt recognize the difference between a strong side olb and weak side or slot reciever vs wide out (or the oline sides/nt/dt or the 3-4 defense)....lotsa work to be done that probably wont happen

[RedZoneD25]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

Having 99 overalls in the game is one of the drawbacks of the current ratings system, IMO. As mentioned there is no progression unless you "cheat" by changing the guys position before the offseason.

I personally prefer FIFA's approach (other sports game do this as well, NHL, NBA 2k etc.) where the top rated player is rated fairly low at 90 overall (and there is only one rated 90 OVR of 15,000+ player in FIFA) and only has potential to increase to 95. Also the highest individual rating in FIFA is 96, if I remember correctly, and they are very rare.

Also the overall ratings in FIFA changes when you do small adjustments in the formation. In Madden terms is would be equivalent to an 85 OVR RT not being an 85 OVR LT, or an 82 OVR outside wide receiver not being an 82 OVR slot receiver, or a 78 OVR DE in a 4-3 system not being a 78 OVR DE in a 3-4 system. I really appreciate that about the system, because you actually have an OVR "penalty" for playing your players out of position.

All athletes in all types of sports can improve and the very best are usually also the ones that work the hardest on improving themselves throughout their career. Giving them 99 ratings means one of two things in my opinion; either the ratings system doesn't work as intended if 99 ratings are needed to separate the elite from the good, or that you haven't really understood that professional athletes work their butt off to always improve their game.

Preach on! If there was a karma system on OS, I'd give you a +1 for that. I would LOVE a true scaled roster system where the best of the best in the game are lucky if they hit 90.

Unfortunately, I think due to players and fans alike complaining about ratings, it is a long shot. Would be very nice to see though.

[fhhs63]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

Exactly, Madden need a system like that, Like they have in NHL 11....

[PGaither84]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

Preach on! If there was a karma system on OS, I'd give you a +1 for that. I would LOVE a true scaled roster system where the best of the best in the game are lucky if they hit 90.

Unfortunately, I think due to players and fans alike complaining about ratings, it is a long shot. Would be very nice to see though.

I would just like to comment that the system that weights the ratings is what is really to blame here.

As an example where I have seen this go to the extreme was Madden 07. In that game, default rookie Vernon Davis was an 86 OVR TE. If you raised his very low run blocking rating up to 63... yes, only 63 run blocking, keeping him far below the top run blockers despite the fact that he is the best run blocking TE in football to day, his OVR rating would shoot up toaround 96 or 97 OVR. He would hit 99 OVR long before he became the top run blocking TE in the game.

This is becasue of what goes into rating each position. Changing the Run blocking of a defensive end will not change his OVR rating one bit [that i am aware of.] Additionally, 3-4 defensive linemen are rating on the same scale as 4-3 linemen. In order for Haloti Ngata to be a 97+ player, he hasto have super ratings [though he does deserve them.] On the other hand, someone like Igor Olshansky who is a really talented 3-4 end is only an 80 or so OVR player.

I honestly think [and this is just my opinion] that Donny Moore will rate some players individual ratings up or down in large part to adjust their OVR rating to meet preception as opposed to rating each individual attribute by itself and letting OVR land where ever it will land. I honetly feel that some players will be overrated in some attributes or others will take a hit simply to adjust the OVR rating of that player.

[adembroski]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

yes, it sucks madden still doesnt recognize the difference between a strong side olb and weak side or slot reciever vs wide out (or the oline sides/nt/dt or the 3-4 defense)....lotsa work to be done that probably wont happen

NFL teams, generally speaking, do not flip their outside linebackers or their ends. Some do, on occassion, but as a rule, they do not. A lot of teams don't even differenciate between their Free Safety and their Strong Safety/Rover, using them interchangably. The Ravens are the most striking exception... while they don't flip their fronts often, occassionally they do work Suggs off the weak side regardless of the formation strength. In Dallas, Ware never lines up anywhere but the left. Ever. Regardless of the offensive strength. (I shouldn't say never because someone will find video that shows him on the right, but in all of the plays I've looked at from the 2010 season, he hasn't... and I've watched a lot of film over the past few weeks).

The exception is DT... here you have a point. 4-3 and hybrid teams generally have a 3-tech tackle (under on some teams, over on others) and a nose tackle and they'll usually flip. Again, there are exceptions... the Eagles, for instance, never flip their tackles, ends, or backers.

[cl34v4g3]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

I would just like to comment that the system that weights the ratings is what is really to blame here.

As an example where I have seen this go to the extreme was Madden 07. In that game, default rookie Vernon Davis was an 86 OVR TE. If you raised his very low run blocking rating up to 63... yes, only 63 run blocking, keeping him far below the top run blockers despite the fact that he is the best run blocking TE in football to day, his OVR rating would shoot up toaround 96 or 97 OVR. He would hit 99 OVR long before he became the top run blocking TE in the game.

This is becasue of what goes into rating each position. Changing the Run blocking of a defensive end will not change his OVR rating one bit [that i am aware of.] Additionally, 3-4 defensive linemen are rating on the same scale as 4-3 linemen. In order for Haloti Ngata to be a 97+ player, he hasto have super ratings [though he does deserve them.] On the other hand, someone like Igor Olshansky who is a really talented 3-4 end is only an 80 or so OVR player.

I honestly think [and this is just my opinion] that Donny Moore will rate some players individual ratings up or down in large part to adjust their OVR rating to meet preception as opposed to rating each individual attribute by itself and letting OVR land where ever it will land. I honetly feel that some players will be overrated in some attributes or others will take a hit simply to adjust the OVR rating of that player.

I completely agree. Also, I have noticed that the AWR attribute has stupid rediculous weight tied to it. Rookies come in through the draft with amazing ratings but only like a 40 AWR, leaving their OVR at like 70. And on the opposite end of the spectrum, some players have horrible skills but are rated in the high 80s because they have a high AWR...

The worst thing about that is that in an actual game, the AWR seems as if it doesn't matter one bit, which means that your 88 OVR rookie linebacker is going to play terribly because he actually has worse attributes than some of the rookies who come in in the 60s. But just because hes a smart kid, you drafted him in the first round and paid him millions even though he couldn't chase down or cover an o-lineman, much less a halfback or tight end.

I'm not sure if it would work, just throwing an idea out there, but what if the athletic skills had absolutely no effect on the OVR whatsoever? Just because Chris Johnson has 99 speed, acceleration and agility(which is what they should be, I don't think anyone would argue that), he's automatically in the 90s despite if you made his actual football skills all terrible. Or if you made a lineman with 99 Strength and agility he's going to start in the high 80s before you even touch his actual blocking skills... Isn't that wrong? I mean, EVERYONE in the NFL is athletic, except maybe some kickers and punters... If you made the athletic skills not count towards OVR, it would allow the ratings to actually be more realistic, because as it is now, some guys on the Titans team who are very fast and agile have bad athletic skills because if their speed/acc/agility were set to what they should be they would be overrated in the OVR. Two players I'm thinking of specifically are OLB Gerald McRath and TE Jared Cook. McRath was one of the fastest, most athletic LBs in his draft class, and Cook is a freak athletically. But, since they aren't the greatest at their positions, their athleticism takes a big hit because those attributes have more weight than the actual football skills of their positions.

Sorry for the long read, kind of got carried away lol...

[Exonerated]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

FIFA has the best rating system.

Messi 90 ovr RW. Ronaldo 89 overall RW.

Move messi from RW>ST and he goes down to a 85 ovr Striker.

Move Ronaldo from RW>ST and he goes down to an 84 ovr striker.


Players have preferred formations and positions.

Just like players in the NFL have preferred schemes and positions. Sure Revis could play as in a cover 2 scheme as a safety, but he would take a ratings hit!

[PGaither84]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

(I shouldn't say never because someone will find video that shows him on the right, but in all of the plays I've looked at from the 2010 season, he hasn't... and I've watched a lot of film over the past few weeks).

I don't know about 2010, but in 09 I recall a number of plays where Ware [lol] attacked the strong side. in fact, there was a Packers game last year or later where Ware [lol again] got a free rush on the passer and this very forum lit up for a little while about how the computer would never let that happen in madden.

[PGaither84]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

@cl34v4g3

Also, Madden also rates defensive ends based off of the 4-3 skill set, or namely finesse moves for pass rushing.

If you take N. Suh and move him to DE, he goes from an 89 to an 82 OVR. he has 89 Power Moves and 50 Finesse Moves. if you flip those ratings, he goes up to like an 87 or so. If you keep the 89 Power moves and make him an 88 Finesse moves, he enters the 90's in OVR. In order to get Haloti Ngata up to a 98 OVR, he not only has 97, 98 and 99 in his strength, awareness. tackle, power move, block shedding, pursuit and play recognition ratings, but he also has like 63 Finesse Moves. Every 3 or so points in Finesse Moves changes a Defensive End's OVR rating. Dropping his Finesse Moves down to 50 drops his OVR to 93.

As you said, there are a lot of good players in Madden that have a silly hit to their ratings to keep them low, others who don't have good numbers but get a hollow boost to raise their OVR, and some who are already good, but don't get a good OVR unless they bump up "meaningless ratings." Afterall, why does Nagata have 67 Finesse instead of 64 or 50? Well, that raises his OVR up 5 points and he is one of the best players in the league that way.

[KANE699]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

AJ they move Ware around but the frequency is rare, he will occasionally rush the right tackle but its only if its a special defensive play or if they see a certain weakness in the right tackle that they will try it here and there.

[twl221]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

NFL Head Coach Ratings system FTW!

[adembroski]

Re: 99 overalls not progressing?

I don't know about 2010, but in 09 I recall a number of plays where Ware [lol] attacked the strong side. in fact, there was a Packers game last year or later where Ware [lol again] got a free rush on the passer and this very forum lit up for a little while about how the computer would never let that happen in madden.

AJ they move Ware around but the frequency is rare, he will occasionally rush the right tackle but its only if its a special defensive play or if they see a certain weakness in the right tackle that they will try it here and there.

I see.

Either way, my point is only reinforced here; he's a ROLB, not a "WILL" in the sense the person I was responding too meant. NFL teams move guys around to exploit match ups, but I can't think of any that make a regular practice of having a "strong side" and "weak side" linebacker or end.

Again, most under-front teams DO flip their tackles, and some 3-4 teams flip their inside linebackers, but I think those are the only common ones.