EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thread!

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  • Afrikan
    Banned
    • Apr 2004
    • 1462

    #1

    EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thread!

    This is for FIFA, but we know EA Studios shares tech....NO REASON this shouldn't be in NCAA and Madden Next year! if we expect it, maybe it will happen..lol.

    I won't link the video, it might get taken down. Thankx goes to rvy from NeoGAF for these gifs.














    Last edited by Afrikan; 05-21-2011, 05:07 PM.
  • mestevo
    Gooney Goo Goo
    • Apr 2010
    • 19556

    #2
    Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

    There's plenty of reason it couldn't just be 'dropped in', hopefully it's not added until it can be done right, if that's not until the next generation in consoles then so be it.

    I'd expect the overhead for this kind of thing is much lower in FIFA, where only a handful of players will be physically interacting at any given time. Madden would have to account for 22 players all interacting potentially every single snap.

    Comment

    • adembroski
      49ers
      • Jul 2002
      • 5829

      #3
      Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

      There's a lot more to physics in football than other sports. We have to account for guys struggling out of contact, sustained contact rather than impacts.

      What we have to account for that other games don't- in most games, guys fall down. In our game, they're doing everything they can not to fall down. The physics models I've seen handle the first part well... the second part, not so much.

      That said, Phil Frazier has said in several interviews that this year's impact system in Madden is our first step toward physics as a long term goal. All I'm saying is we can't just take it from NHL or FIFA and have it work in Madden. The nature of contact in those games is entirely different from NFL Football.
      There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

      The first kind is wrong. The second is superfluous.

      The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.
      -Mark Twain.

      Comment

      • Afrikan
        Banned
        • Apr 2004
        • 1462

        #4
        Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

        mestevo...well, to start maybe they can just use it for tackling..so basically where ever the ball goes, who ever is involved in that sequence is when physics are taken into play.... so on the outside with WRs and CBs battling, it can stick to regular animation....but as Soon as a WR catches the ball, everyone after that who comes into contact with him...most likely 2-3 people, worse case scenario..it would be triggered.

        so a Running back gets the ball, who ever comes in contact with him...Impact engine takes over...where as everywhere else on the field, regular random animations are happening.

        I think that is how it is in Fifa for now.

        edit- just read your reply after submitting my post, Thankx Adem...I don't expect it to be perfect the first time out..but it would be a start. In Fifa you can see where it needs work, but dangit it looks like they are headed in the right direction..and that is the exciting part. Now PES is going to have to step up next year. I hope it works out for Madden.
        Last edited by Afrikan; 05-21-2011, 05:44 PM.

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        • Afrikan
          Banned
          • Apr 2004
          • 1462

          #5
          Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

          Adem, were you able to find out about MLAA for the PS3 version?

          7 PS3 games released this year have used it

          EA owned
          Dragon Age 2
          Need For Speed Shift 2

          published
          Portal 2

          others
          Motorstorm 3
          Socom 4
          LittleBigPlanet 2
          Killzone 3

          I know I know..different games...different engines.....but just wondering, we'd appreciate it.

          Comment

          • Atomic Martian
            Rookie
            • Mar 2009
            • 154

            #6
            Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

            Thats a reasonable explanation Adem. I would feel cheated if Players went down on instant contact. Need to see the struggle fight.

            Comment

            • Thinking Out Loud
              Banned
              • Apr 2011
              • 357

              #7
              Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

              We might have to wait until Madden 13 or beyond for this entire Impact Physics Engine but I think we are getting versions of FIFA's impact engine and Pro Player Intelligence, in Madden 12. After reading Afrikan's post and finding an article about FIFA 12, seems like a lot of work has been put in throughout EA Sports as a whole concerning player AI. This quote, "EA Sports wants to inject more intelligence into their virtual players....." from a gamereactor.eu article, suggest the Player Traits/Tendencies in Madden 12 are probably more than just some new BUGGY experimental feature. Instead, being an EA Sports feature, applied differently in various titles and having the advantage of being already tested, in a slightly different form, in other EA Sports titles.

              Also, the way it was described that injuries work in that EA Impact Engine, sounds very similar to the Collision Engine described in Madden 12. Hopefully the injury progression described in that article will be available in Madden 12 but at least Madden 13.

              E3 just became a much bigger deal for me because if Player Traits/Tendencies is the DPP announcement EA is planning and it is a culmination of efforts from various EA Sports titles developers, these could be something revolutionary. I don't put a lot stock in the Madden hype but this investment in increased virtual player intelligence, seems to be much more substantial than that.

              Time will tell.
              Last edited by Thinking Out Loud; 05-21-2011, 06:22 PM.

              Comment

              • raguel
                Rookie
                • Jun 2009
                • 485

                #8
                Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

                Originally posted by adembroski
                There's a lot more to physics in football than other sports. We have to account for guys struggling out of contact, sustained contact rather than impacts.
                I hope this new engine will also allow the DL to perform double moves. I'm pretty sure it's not possible in Madden 11, but I could be wrong on that.

                For those who don't know what I mean: imagine a dt doing a rip move to his right, then immediately performing a spin move to his left. here's an example (around 21:10 mark):

                Comment

                • xblake16x
                  Pro
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 620

                  #9
                  Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

                  I wonder if there is a system where the game can calculate if the tackle should be made.

                  Say marshawn lynch takes the handoff to the outside where a CB has an opportunity to tackle him. Right before the players make contact the game calculates if the tackle should be made or not with regards to position, momentum, speed, etc etc... if the calculation results in the CB making the tackle, true physics/impact engine jumps in and we see a non canned tackle. If the tackle isnt supposed to be made, after the calculation, then we see an animation of a struggle and or broken tackle?

                  Comment

                  • Nza
                    MVP
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 3437

                    #10
                    Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

                    Sooner or later EA will need to make the plunge. I sympathize with the reality that NFL football is perhaps the most complex implementation of physics in sports videogaming imagineable, but by that same token physics engine technology won't suddenly reach the maturity EA need it to for an easy implementation in Madden without an NFL game, likely EA's, forcing it to.

                    Physics in soccer, hockey etc will reach their peak and this will still be quite short of an easy single cycle implementation into Madden I suspect, at least not without some loss in functionality over the existing animation system. So EA really have 3 options - ignore it, develop it but expose the results early (i.e. the 'retail beta test' model), or develop it now with intentions of releasing it a cycle or two down the track, i.e., commit resources now for results later.

                    Comment

                    • GGEden
                      Rookie
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 228

                      #11
                      Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

                      Originally posted by adembroski
                      There's a lot more to physics in football than other sports. We have to account for guys struggling out of contact, sustained contact rather than impacts.

                      What we have to account for that other games don't- in most games, guys fall down. In our game, they're doing everything they can not to fall down. The physics models I've seen handle the first part well... the second part, not so much.

                      That said, Phil Frazier has said in several interviews that this year's impact system in Madden is our first step toward physics as a long term goal. All I'm saying is we can't just take it from NHL or FIFA and have it work in Madden. The nature of contact in those games is entirely different from NFL Football.
                      Even tho there are those issues you explain, it would still be sheer joy for gamers to play a football game using a physics engine that EA has developed, has in use for FIFA/NHL. Eg, if it's true EA is coming out with another football title (Arena, Street, etc) it would be great to use that platform to test a full physics engine on that title for preparation for Madden 14 say.

                      Backbreaker was such (and still is) such an awesome game to play purely for the total physics, but lack so much that EA does well, camera angles, presentation, etc. So if EA could do a physics-based Arena/Street, I believe all football fans would go ape in excitement to buy and play.

                      As for accounting for "struggling out of contact, sustained contact, not falling down"....putting in true weight/mass, using a F=ma formula, and giving all players a "Balance" attribute, where some players maintain their balance more than others....would that address those problems?

                      Eg, running backs...some are known for going down too easy, while others are not. Their Balance attributes could be say "40" and "95". So in a physics-based engine, with mass factored in and F=ma, a 95 balance RB's AI would fight harder to maintain momentum, to continue planting his feet and trying to restore 'upright' balance as his body is falling over itself from a hard hit. Whereas a 40 RB's AI would fall over on initial contact more.

                      Thanks.
                      Last edited by GGEden; 05-22-2011, 12:38 AM. Reason: bukktown save
                      Kilroy was here

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                      • bukktown
                        MVP
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 3257

                        #12
                        Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

                        I'm not sure what you are getting at with e=mc2. Are you meaning to say F=ma2? Or M=mv?

                        Comment

                        • GGEden
                          Rookie
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 228

                          #13
                          Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

                          lol, i edited out that reference because it's not the right one. The F=ma is the one. Thanks for the save.
                          Last edited by GGEden; 05-22-2011, 12:27 AM.
                          Kilroy was here

                          Comment

                          • huskerwr38
                            MVP
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 1549

                            #14
                            Re: EA's IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE!!! When can we expect in Madden? Clips inside this thr

                            I do believe that if Madden did not have the exclusive license we would have a football game with real time physics right now. Ian had once said that they did experiment with RTP in like Madden 06 (or something of that sort), but it was very buggy and didn't work right. He also said he was going to post a video of it but never got around to it. He mentioned it one of the podcasts and I asked him on twitter to post the video but I guess he was just too busy.

                            Comment

                            • Footballfullback
                              Rookie
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 47

                              #15
                              Re: EA IMPACT PHYSICS ENGINE! When can we expect it in Madden? Clips inside this thre

                              Originally posted by Afrikan










                              I feel like it's not respecting weight quite right. The tackler just went through his animation like it was nothing while the ball carrier flipped.

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