Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

[mjhyankees]

this question: Why didn't next gen have a better franchise mode all along. I"ve seen it asked 1000+ times and never really heard an answer from them.

Was it because it's actually difficult to put in all those features that made it to last gen?

Is it because they thought no one cared about them?

Was it more profitable not to put them in?

Did actually think the game was better without them?

Not enough development time to get it done?

Was there a disc space or development problem with getting them on last gen?

I'm glad that franchise will be much improved this year but it still doesn't have as much as last gen had by 07. I think the expanded rosters is the only thing that last gen didn't have...maybe scouting too.
I've enjoyed M11 those most since 07-08 maddens on last gen and look forward to the new game. I'm just wondering if Ian or Phil or anyone ever explained this.
I don't think they did, and it makes it feel like their embarassed to address it, like their reasoning will anger the fans or something.

[TNT713]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

MJH,

I can tell you what I've observed about NG's development since Madden '06 with the understanding that this is simply my opinion based on what I've learned from watching, reading, and conversations I've had with people close to developers.

For the first three years of NG Madden, devs had to deal with system architecture that was completely different than the PS2. Imagine going from a car to a fighter jet.

The first NG Madden ('06), was a launch title for the 360. It didn't look like Madden, feel like Madden, nor have the depth of Madden. It was very vanilla, bare bones, and stripped. 1v1 was HORRIBLE, so I can only assume every other mode was yuck as well.

In Madden '07 for NG (PS3 and 360) the game was still vanilla. It had some sprinkles that it didn't have the year before, but it was still found lacking in the eyes of Madden fans. In Madden '08 for NG, the game started to fulfill the promise of the series. 1v1 was OK because it finally had defensive playmaker, but it still had the same core problem that '06 and '07 had... The Devs were focused on CRAP (sorry Devs) that didn't matter. 1v1 was still unappealing.

Take the field on NG '08 for example. There were so many resources dedicated to field degradation (dev and processor) that animations for making a tackle on a leaping receiver went missing. While some may have been wowed at the what happened to the field, it wasn't nearly as important as the game itself.

Weapons was another useless gimmick that disappeared quickly. The icons at players feet were ugly and useless. If you could have color-by-numbers on the football field, Weapons would be the equivalent. The result - Ortiz out, PS2 dev team in.

Madden '09 was the first NG game that had the Madden feel. It had much of the depth of Madden. But devs spent most of their time scrapping the work of the previous 3 years in order to bring the Madden feel back. They ripped out the resource hog that was the field and replaced it with a texture map that looked 100 times better and took up far less system resources.

Madden '10 - Now we're talking!!! Good game. The devs worked on putting things into the game that were both meaningful and core to football.

Madden '11 - Better than '10, but still lacking the development on the add-on modes because the core mode still needed work.

Now that Madden 12 is on the horizon, we are finally getting to a point where the PS2 version's features and functions will be available. As such, the devs can spend time working on the Add-on modes...

Remember... Franchise is NOT a core game mode (no matter what the appeal). It is and has always been an ADD ON. Until now, it was enough to have the devs create 30 years worth of players and slap them into a Franchise mode that wasn't getting much work otherwise.

I'm glad that the game has evolved to a point that Franchise mode was again a priority... But they had to get the base right first.

Just my $0.02.

Later

[btemp]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

Sure, except it shouldn't take 4+ years to get to this point. While I will absolutely buy your argument for the first year or two I don't after that point. For whatever reason, and I don't really care why, EA put out shoddy games. It seems they hit their stride with 10 and 11 (and hopefully 12) but that's just embarrassing, both for us buying the game and the developers.

[RedZoneD25]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

To be a bit more detailed-

Josh Looman was in charge of Franchise Mode during it's peak years (Madden 04-07 PS2). After that, he left to work on Head Coach 09, which is arguably the best "franchise mode" in video game history. He returned to the team in Madden 10, with the hub that we've all been accustomed to that in his words would "provide a foundation for the future". Madden 11 didn't see too many changes, but I personally believe they were already looking to where we are now back during Madden 10's cycle. Instead of putting in 50% of the features we're getting now in Madden 11, they fixed some sim stat bugs, added new classes and called it a day in order to maximize the impact (and amount) of Madden 12's improvements.

To sum it up-

The reason Franchise Mode was lacking from M06-M09 is because Josh Looman wasn't on the team. The reason it was lacking in M10-M11 was because they were preparing the behemoth that was Madden 12's Franchise Mode (and the fact that he was put on MUT duty).

Notes-

A few things that weren't in PS2 FM besides expanded rosters-

- Dynamic Player Performance (arguably the most important change)
- Future Draft Picks
- Real Rookie Portraits
- Cut Days (well, that ties into expanded rosters but is still different)

That's just off the top of my head. Will M12's FM be perfect? No. The thing is though, it is far and away going to be the best we have had on this version of consoles...I'm sure of it.

[hampshire2012]

I essentially think it boils down to franchise mode having a two year development cycle.

I think what happened is as they were making madden 10's franchise mode, they realised just how screwy the code base was. They decided to essentially forget about madden 11's franchise mode because they knew it would take more than a one year dev cycle to rebuild (remember a two year dev cycle is actually a lot more than twice the length of a one year dev cycle in terms of how much raw coding work time is available). The result of this extended dev cycle is what we are seeing with madden 12'a franchise mode, which I think looks awesome.

[je_2512]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

To be a bit more detailed-

Josh Looman was in charge of Franchise Mode during it's peak years (Madden 04-07 PS2). After that, he left to work on Head Coach 09, which is arguably the best "franchise mode" in video game history. He returned to the team in Madden 10, with the hub that we've all been accustomed to that in his words would "provide a foundation for the future". Madden 11 didn't see too many changes, but I personally believe they were already looking to where we are now back during Madden 10's cycle. Instead of putting in 50% of the features we're getting now in Madden 11, they fixed some sim stat bugs, added new classes and called it a day in order to maximize the impact (and amount) of Madden 12's improvements.

To sum it up-

The reason Franchise Mode was lacking from M06-M09 is because Josh Looman wasn't on the team. The reason it was lacking in M10-M11 was because they were preparing the behemoth that was Madden 12's Franchise Mode (and the fact that he was put on MUT duty).

Notes-

A few things that weren't in PS2 FM besides expanded rosters-

- Dynamic Player Performance (arguably the most important change)
- Future Draft Picks
- Real Rookie Portraits
- Cut Days (well, that ties into expanded rosters but is still different)

That's just off the top of my head. Will M12's FM be perfect? No. The thing is though, it is far and away going to be the best we have had on this version of consoles...I'm sure of it.

Couldn't agree more with the last sentence, especially. This is really the first time since 05 I have been even a little hyped about Madden's release. It actually SOUNDS promising....we'll see how well it all works out. But, the point is, NOW it really is headed in a direction that I have some interest in.

[mjhyankees]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

To be a bit more detailed-

Josh Looman was in charge of Franchise Mode during it's peak years (Madden 04-07 PS2). After that, he left to work on Head Coach 09, which is arguably the best "franchise mode" in video game history. He returned to the team in Madden 10, with the hub that we've all been accustomed to that in his words would "provide a foundation for the future". Madden 11 didn't see too many changes, but I personally believe they were already looking to where we are now back during Madden 10's cycle. Instead of putting in 50% of the features we're getting now in Madden 11, they fixed some sim stat bugs, added new classes and called it a day in order to maximize the impact (and amount) of Madden 12's improvements.

To sum it up-

The reason Franchise Mode was lacking from M06-M09 is because Josh Looman wasn't on the team. The reason it was lacking in M10-M11 was because they were preparing the behemoth that was Madden 12's Franchise Mode (and the fact that he was put on MUT duty).

Notes-

A few things that weren't in PS2 FM besides expanded rosters-

- Dynamic Player Performance (arguably the most important change)
- Future Draft Picks
- Real Rookie Portraits
- Cut Days (well, that ties into expanded rosters but is still different)

That's just off the top of my head. Will M12's FM be perfect? No. The thing is though, it is far and away going to be the best we have had on this version of consoles...I'm sure of it.

So essentially you are saying that the Franchise mode was down because they first ignored it (because Looman wasn't on this)_ and then the delayed it to get it right (which tells me that it's not so easy to just "drop it in the game"...that there are programming issues etc.)....Did I get it?

[TreFacTor]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

The BIGGER question is... since the next generation of consoles is on the way, will the (next) next gen maddens be the same as this gen in terms of minimal features until the end of those consoles cycles. Let's hope that isn't the case but this generation of madden set a bad precedent for advancement and improvements mving from generation to generation.

[Argooos]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

The BIGGER question is... since the next generation of consoles is on the way, will the (next) next gen maddens be the same as this gen in terms of minimal features until the end of those consoles cycles. Let's hope that isn't the case but this generation of madden set a bad precedent for advancement and improvements mving from generation to generation.

I really hope that as soon as the next generation is available to EA for testing, they get a team working on the Madden game for those systems. If they are smart they'll just port over the whole thing, and replace old stuff with new stuff as they go.

[jvaccaro]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

The tiburon devs have explained that it's a matter of time.

Madden 06 was built from scratch for 360, so many features from last gen had to be left out. Each year they prioritize which features (new and previously used ideas) are most important.

The dev team has said that programming for next gen takes far more resources than the same identical feature in last gen games. In addition to the time needed, just adding seemingly simple features can negatively affect other aspects of the game without thorough testing.

Since franchise is a deep and complex mode with many passionate users, they explained they didn't want to piece it together a little bit each year rather than efficiently overhauling the mode to be set for this year's release.

A while back Phil tweeted that some features are in the works for years before they are ready to make the game. I wouldn't be surprised if Looman had been working on franchise mode over the last couple dev cycles, since he was taken from the Head Coach team in 2009.

[shnuskis]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

What I haven't seen anyone say but is something I believe was the plan all along, was Head Coach was a test run, or beta, or what ever you want to call it, to work on, perfect and fine tune what they wanted and the direction they would go with the franchise in Madden. So that was a year to produce Head Coach, a 6 months to tweak and evaluate it, and 1 1/2 to implement it into Madden. That is a 3 year development cycle for the new franchise improvements.

[ACardAttack]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

Lack of competition didnt help motivate either to add to some of the other reasons, but I think its the biggest reason it took this long...as others said, I buy the first couple years, but by the time we hit 08 and 09 should have been as good as last gen featue wise

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

Lack of competition didnt help motivate either to add to some of the other reasons, but I think its the biggest reason it took this long...as others said, I buy the first couple years, but by the time we hit 08 and 09 should have been as good as last gen featue wise

Lack of competition had absolutely ZERO to do with it

[mestevo]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

There's been competition, they just declined to put out a product that could compete. Like others said, it takes more to develop for this gen.

From the get-go they should have developed a robust base to build from, and rotated features on a 2 year cycle similar to what happened with franchise. Then every other year you've got major updates to the larger features rather than more minor iteration.

[ACardAttack]

Re: Was there ever a definitive answer to.......

There's been competition, they just declined to put out a product that could compete. Like others said, it takes more to develop for this gen.

From the get-go they should have developed a robust base to build from, and rotated features on a 2 year cycle similar to what happened with franchise. Then every other year you've got major updates to the larger features rather than more minor iteration.

What competition? What NFL games have there been other than Madden?

If competition didnt matter to EA they wouldnt have bought up the rights to NFL exclusivity...

Competition drives creativity and is always better for the consumer...just like at Gamespot...they now offer preorder bonuses on new titles so you preorder with them instead of best buy, or walmart or amazon, etc.