Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

[Big FN Deal]

Some may think the obvious answer to this question is yes but I think that is not a given. I am not talking about playing around the office pre-release or bug testing but actually taking the final build home and playing online, online head to head, online franchise, offline franchise modes, etc, regularly.

I remember when people that worked at fast foods places would say that, after spending hours making that food, they no longer wanted to eat it as much. Maybe that's what happens with the EA developers, after spending so many work hours developing EA football games, they would much rather play or do something else.

The reason I bring this up is because there seems to be such a disconnect about some aspects of the games between developers and regular gamers, every year. I just saw a youtube video about using the left trigger to get more lift on passing the ball in Madden 12 and read a thread on OS about the same thing for NCAA 12. The odd thing is that based on the responses developers have given about the left trigger effecting passing, EA developers have no knowledge of it.

Another thing is, you don't have to be very meticulous to spot some of the issues with Madden. Just playing a few head to head games online and various other modes will expose you to obvious issues. RC, zig zag running, odd animations, poor player ball awareness, LB batting down too low passes, offline franchise issues, same play being successful over and over, etc, can all be seen in a matter of a few games. Now if the average person can be exposed to these issues after limited playing time, surely if developers where playing these games in their free time, they would see these, become frustrated with how the game plays and fix these issues the next year. However, that has not been the case, for the most part.

I have seen videos and read articles in which developers state they hate these kind of things in the game and they want a game that plays as realistic as possible. I don't see how they can achieve that goal if they are not actually playing the game to regularly experience just how unrealistic and potentially frustrating some aspects of the games can be.

(Just for the record before somebody makes a "no game is perfect" comment, perfection is not the issue, the developers seeming to be oblivious to certain aspects and issues with EA football games every year, is.)

[Jaaa]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

I don't know how anyone plays EA football games.

[RaiderKtulu]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

When one creates something, one often tends to be blind to it's flaws.

[NikeBlitz]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

The reason I bring this up is because there seems to be such a disconnect about some aspects of the games between developers and regular gamers, every year. I just saw a youtube video about using the left trigger to get more lift on passing the ball in Madden 12 and read a thread on OS about the same thing for NCAA 12. The odd thing is that based on the responses developers have given about the left trigger effecting passing, EA developers have no knowledge of it.

Can i see it ?

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

Can i see it ?

I was going to embed it but the music playing on it has explicit lyrics so I will just post the link. I just noticed it was uploaded May 21 so they were probably using Madden 11 because I think LT is pump fake in Madden 12. However, there is an entire thread on it for NCAA 12 on OS where a developer responds via twitter, I believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5SSZZARTK8

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

When one creates something, one often tends to be blind to it's flaws.

I can understand that but this situation makes me think of that movie The Super, I think that's the name of it. A slumlord, played by Joe Pesci, is sentenced to leave in this rundown rental property he owns, as punishment for what he has subjected his tenants too, that can't afford to go anywhere else.

I am not comparing EA developers to slumlords, I am just saying when someone actually utilizes something they create, I think that would make them even more critical of the flaws than the average user and compel them to enact change.

[Hooe]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

Given how much the more vocal devs (Josh Looman, Donny Moore) tweet about playing the game, I would surmise that the developers play it.

On top of that, one has to play the game to ensure a feature works. Before someone comes in here and bites my head off, I say this on a high level. For example, someone had to go in and play a Madden franchise to ensure that, in the free agency step, that all the following happened:

• The user can bid on free agent players
• The AI can and does bid on free agent players
• A bid can be overriden by any player at any time so long as time remains to bid on that player
• Eventually, time runs out, and the highest-bidding team is awarded the free agent player

On that level, the game works. Are there bugs in the game? Sure, no software release ever has been bug-free. But to say something is "broken", you first have to define what you mean by "broken", and on this level the game is absolutely not broken.

The issue that your topic post seems to be pointing at is that Madden is catered at a number of difference audiences. There's the pick-up-and-play crowd who just wants to hop online, play a few games, and that's that. There's the MUT crowd, who wants to collect cards, play against opponents, buy more cards, trade cards, etc. And then there's the managerial crowd, who enjoys roster management, interesting on-field challenges, drafting and teambuilding, etc. While the modes over top of the game can be different and separate for each of these three crowds, the core football game has to be accessible to all three of these crowds equally.

To that end, the online community feature is a HUGE plus for this year, because it allows each of these three user bases to separate themselves from each other to get more enjoyment out of the game. You don't want to play against someone who rocket catches? Join a "sim" community that frowns upon such. You want to join a community where the game is super-fast, penalties aren't a thing, and using exploits are seen as playing to win? Join a community that meets your interests to that end.

[roadman]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

I don't know, not trying to be a smarty here, but after putting in a 60-70 hr work week, maybe they want a home life too?

My wife doesn't bring her work home and I don't bring mine into family time, either. Doesn't mean we don't have passion or care what we do in our jobs.

[bucky60]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

But to say something is "broken", you first have to define what you mean by "broken", and on this level the game is absolutely not broken.

The issue that your topic post seems to be pointing at is that Madden is catered at a number of difference audiences. And then there's the managerial crowd, who enjoys roster management, interesting on-field challenges, drafting and teambuilding, etc.

To that end, the online community feature is a HUGE plus for this year, because it allows each of these three user bases to separate themselves from each other to get more enjoyment out of the game.

How in the world does online community help offline franchise? And if offline franchise gives highly unrealistic results and basically makes the mode unplayable, then it is broken.

As in the very low rated Undrafted Rookie Free Agents making teams at an alarming rate, while the CPU is cutting much better players. This makes CPU controlled teams much weaker after only a couple seasons. That makes the mode broken.

[Flamehead]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

On that level, the game works. Are there bugs in the game? Sure, no software release ever has been bug-free. But to say something is "broken", you first have to define what you mean by "broken", and on this level the game is absolutely not broken.

You're playing with semantics here, and adhering more to the letter rather than the spirit. If something works as designed as is therefore not broken, but runs counter to common sense or realism, it's hollow to say "but it's not broken", as if to defend the devs.

The issue of dozens and dozens of severely low rated UDFA on rosters instead of higher rated real players is a great example of this. The devs don't acknowledge this as broken, implying it's working as designed, by saying "we wanted to mimic the turnover that happens every year in the NFL". Problem is, those things don't happen in real life as portrayed in the game, so they're not correctly replicating that.

Regardless, the OP is spot-on--It's not about the minute bugs that are only found with hundreds of thousands of consumers playing the game. It's about the obvious issues found simply by playing a game or two (or simulating a franchise or two), that any one person can see unless they're blind. This is what those who say "every game has bugs" ignores.

[rymflaherty]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

When one creates something, one often tends to be blind to it's flaws.

As someone that is "creative" - I feel that often times it's actually the opposite that is true. You can be hyper-aware of flaws and if left to your own devices, feel the urge to endlessly tweek things for an eternity.
If you are oblivious to such things - more often than not, it's probably something that isn't good or you're not very good at whatever it is you do.

With that in mind - I think the biggest issue could simply be the rushed time these developers have to create the game. I'm not trying to apologize for Ea, but at the end of the day when you're given a limited time to work on (what many would call) an inferior engine/build to begin with....we shouldn't be surprised when the results are less than stellar.

I don't know if any of you guys caught any of the "Making of NCAA" that was airing on ESPN. It was interesting to hear them talk about bugs and problems - the fact that changing even a minute detail potentially throws a ton of things out of wack. After watching that special, I came away with the impression that they'd need double, if not triple the time to produce the type of game most people are demanding.

Personally I think they did a decent job with 12'. To me 11' was virtually unplayable........these past few days with 12' I've had some fun and have not had the rage inducing moments that made me want to break the game last year.
At this point I think the only hope for something revolutionary is that EA is able to take the time to create something special when they rebuild the game for the next-gen consoles, whenever that may be,

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

For me.......I said it before for the past 20 years now......Madden and sports games in general is geared towards head to head play. Therefore most of their testing if not all of it is against other human players.

Because of that the CPU AI always ends up lacking or doing totally dumb things in certain situations.

I have one want to know who tested coach mode and said yeah this is coach mode. Madden coach mode isn't coach mode at all. NCAA 12 has TRUE coach mode, what madden has nothing but auto pass from broadcast cam. That ISN'T COACH MODE !

Another thing the whole lack of Defensive End pass rush in both football games for years near needs to come to an end. That whole patty cake you going to bounce 2 yards off of me animation that plays out between the offensive tackle and defensive end needs to be scrapped. It is BS.

The lack of punt blocks needs to be addressed. Punts get blocked in real life, why not in football games ?

The lack of blocking on punt returns and kick returns needs to be addressed as well. And before somebody pull out their "stats" BS and say well you know blah blah blah........Nobody is saying they should return it for a TD all the time, but they definitely need to get more then 2 or 4 yards per a return.

I have yet to see the CPU pull off a Barry Sanders type of run either.

But thankfully they FINALLY got the Fade play to work properly.

Hopefully next year they will expand on the whole player traits thing and let it expand to other categories.

And they need to drop ratings that don't do anything.

Prime example: The Return rating.

For years now, that rating DOES NOTHING, MEAN Nothing. You could have it at 100 or 0 and still get the same results out of the cpu.

If they played the CPU a lot more, they would have been seen these problems years ago. But it is like as long as Online works, head to head works, game is good to go.

[feeq14]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

I wont fully agree, but whomever made the decision to make 70% of scouting absolutley useless needs thier head examined. Seriously

[Franchise408]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

For me.......I said it before for the past 20 years now......Madden and sports games in general is geared towards head to head play. Therefore most of their testing if not all of it is against other human players.

Because of that the CPU AI always ends up lacking or doing totally dumb things in certain situations.

I have one want to know who tested coach mode and said yeah this is coach mode. Madden coach mode isn't coach mode at all. NCAA 12 has TRUE coach mode, what madden has nothing but auto pass from broadcast cam. That ISN'T COACH MODE !

Another thing the whole lack of Defensive End pass rush in both football games for years near needs to come to an end. That whole patty cake you going to bounce 2 yards off of me animation that plays out between the offensive tackle and defensive end needs to be scrapped. It is BS.

The lack of punt blocks needs to be addressed. Punts get blocked in real life, why not in football games ?

The lack of blocking on punt returns and kick returns needs to be addressed as well. And before somebody pull out their "stats" BS and say well you know blah blah blah........Nobody is saying they should return it for a TD all the time, but they definitely need to get more then 2 or 4 yards per a return.

I have yet to see the CPU pull off a Barry Sanders type of run either.

But thankfully they FINALLY got the Fade play to work properly.

Hopefully next year they will expand on the whole player traits thing and let it expand to other categories.

And they need to drop ratings that don't do anything.

Prime example: The Return rating.

For years now, that rating DOES NOTHING, MEAN Nothing. You could have it at 100 or 0 and still get the same results out of the cpu.

If they played the CPU a lot more, they would have been seen these problems years ago. But it is like as long as Online works, head to head works, game is good to go.

I agree with most, if not all of this. This game isn't as infuriating as last year's was on a me vs. AI offline franchise mode level. There are some things that I really like about it.

But when the CPU ALWAYS breaks the first tackle, no matter who the ball carrier or tackler is, it's ridiculous. It ALWAYS happens. Everytime. Doesn't matter if it's Patrick Willis, the CPU breaks the first tackle 99% of the time.

When I have a 91 rated half back (Frank Gore) that can't get more than 2 yards a carry... it's broken.

So many things that I had hoped would be addressed this year but weren't.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Do You Think EA Developers Actually Play EA Football Games?

I don't know, not trying to be a smarty here, but after putting in a 60-70 hr work week, maybe they want a home life too?

My wife doesn't bring her work home and I don't bring mine into family time, either. Doesn't mean we don't have passion or care what we do in our jobs.

I don't think you are trying to be a smarty and this is the exact same point I made in my first post. I can completely understand the developers feeling this way but it seems this reaction would be counterproductive to making better games every year.

I would think a chef that actually eats their own food would make far better meals than one that doesn't. Playing next-gen Madden every year and seeing so many of the exact same issues year after year and having developers seem like they have no idea they even exist, is weird, imo. I was truly optimistic about Madden 12 and NCAA 12 until actually playing a few games. It's not even mainly about the "cheesers" or various play styles people choose to use. I am talking about even when playing a straight up fair opponent and things happen in the game that have been playing out the same way for years.

If developers actually went and played games regularly in these modes and experienced the potential frustration of having a well played game decided by LB swats, poor AI ball awareness, misplaced animations, etc, I just think that would prompt them to say "we gotta fix that for next year".

I used to do security at my local courthouse and we had to pat down and run patrons through metal detectors. There also was some talk of training the security in the use of tasers. Well the first thing that happened when I got this job was I had to actually go through the process I would be preforming on others and likewise for taser training, you must first be tased. Now while being exposed to these things in a controlled way does help put these things into better prospective, nothing equals experiencing them in a real life, unscripted way.

EA developers are in a situation where, if they choose to, they can experience the games they create, in completely unscripted ways. I think that would cause them to produce a far superior product.