No Intentional Grounding

[macbranson]

Has anyone encountered this nonsense when playing the CPU? I was playing the Falcons and Matt Ryan was about to get sacked and he just threw the ball away while he was in the pocket and there was no penalty. Let me elaborate. He had just taken a three step drop, and my defender was instantly in his face and he threw the ball straight out of bounds to the right. He was nowhere where outside the pocket and there were no receivers around. Even the commentary said that he felt the pressure and threw it away. This has happened to me before and I thought maybe he got hit and the ball flew out of his hand. But, no, he threw it out of bounds while in the pocket and got no penalty. Yet another issue to be addressed in this game.

[Legionnaire]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

The ball didn't make it to the line of scrimmage?

[kehlis]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

The ball didn't make it to the line of scrimmage?

Also intentional grounding.



I haven't experienced this personally.

[il blood il]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

dude, your worried about this and not pass interference? that never gets called either...

[macbranson]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

No. He just threw it straight sideways out of bounds. Like he was throwing to someone in the first row of seats. Definitely should have been a penalty. I even went to instant replay to make sure he didn't get hit or something. And then the announcers said that he was under pressure and threw it away.

[Legionnaire]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

Also intentional grounding.

Yeah, I know in reality it's supposed to still be intentional grounding.

But there's kind of a problem with having a computer determine intentional grounding in a game: Going by the actual NFL rules, it's only supposed to be intentional grounding when a QB, facing imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a pass that can't realistically be completed. But I've always been under the impression the CPU can't tell the passer is facing imminent loss of yardage because of pressure by the defense. I don't think the computer understands or makes a distinction between the pass-rusher successfully pressuring the QB or a pass-rusher who is just trying to pressure the QB. Which I always thought is why they don't track QB hurries. I think the cPU can only call it an "imminent loss of yardage because of pressure by the defense" if the QB throws it away while in the process of being taken down (you know those animations NCAA Football has--and maybe Madden has them too, though I've mostly been an NCAA player in recent years and have yet to see it in this year's Madden, so I dunno--where the QB is being wrapped up but still flings the ball?).

So I've always gotten the sense that if you hit the "throw the ball away" button, the CPU doesn't know how to judge it for being Intentional Grounding by any standard except the one that applies outside the pocket, where it's only a penalty if it's short of the line of scrimmage. The CPU can tell whether the ball traveled far enough. I don't know that the CPU knows how to judge the likelihood of an imminent loss of yardage. And I don't know that the computer knows how to judge whether the ball had a reasonable chance of being completed either.

I guess I just always assume the only way this penalty works is for the CPU to judge solely based on whether the ball makes it back to the line of scrimmage or not.

[macbranson]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

I figured the only way the CPU would be able to call that penalty would be if the QB was still in the pocket when he threw the ball away. Since there's a button for throwing the ball away and the CPU can determine if the QB is in the pocket or not (this is how the CPU determines 'sacks allowed' by linemen), I would figure the CPU would determine the penalty based on those two things. I know i've had that penalty called on me for hitting the 'throw the ball away' button while still in the pocket. I'm going to try it myself next time I play and see if I get the penalty call.

[Beeks]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

Yeah, I know in reality it's supposed to still be intentional grounding.

But there's kind of a problem with having a computer determine intentional grounding in a game: Going by the actual NFL rules, it's only supposed to be intentional grounding when a QB, facing imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a pass that can't realistically be completed. But I've always been under the impression the CPU can't tell the passer is facing imminent loss of yardage because of pressure by the defense. I don't think the computer understands or makes a distinction between the pass-rusher successfully pressuring the QB or a pass-rusher who is just trying to pressure the QB. Which I always thought is why they don't track QB hurries. I think the cPU can only call it an "imminent loss of yardage because of pressure by the defense" if the QB throws it away while in the process of being taken down (you know those animations NCAA Football has--and maybe Madden has them too, though I've mostly been an NCAA player in recent years and have yet to see it in this year's Madden, so I dunno--where the QB is being wrapped up but still flings the ball?).

So I've always gotten the sense that if you hit the "throw the ball away" button, the CPU doesn't know how to judge it for being Intentional Grounding by any standard except the one that applies outside the pocket, where it's only a penalty if it's short of the line of scrimmage. The CPU can tell whether the ball traveled far enough. I don't know that the CPU knows how to judge the likelihood of an imminent loss of yardage. And I don't know that the computer knows how to judge whether the ball had a reasonable chance of being completed either.

I guess I just always assume the only way this penalty works is for the CPU to judge solely based on whether the ball makes it back to the line of scrimmage or not.

That would make sense, other than the fact that when this happens, Gus and Chris talk about how the CPU QB was 'feeling the pressure that time, and threw the ball away'. So obviously the CPU knows when it's happening. It's just not being called... probably for the same reason pass interference never gets called... laziness on the part of the dev team for the last 10 years.

[King Gro23]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

dude, your worried about this and not pass interference? that never gets called either...

To be honest brother I have seen 8 pass interference Calls in this years game & 5 by the CPU. If you user catch then you see more PI calls. I have only seen 1 Intentional grounding

[Franchise408]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

I get this all the time and I hate it. Im thinking about turning intentional grounding off because it gives the CPU an unfair advantage when they can throw the ball away without risk of penalty and avoid sacks but the player cant.

[Pandetta]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

I get this all the time and I hate it. Im thinking about turning intentional grounding off because it gives the CPU an unfair advantage when they can throw the ball away without risk of penalty and avoid sacks but the player cant.

This a thousand times! If I try to throw the ball away I frequently get a penalty, however the CPU virtually never receives a corresponding penalty for doing exactly the same thing.

[Aolian_Am]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

i've hit R3, throw the ball away, while in the pocket, haven't got an intentional grounding call against me. it's only happen twice; the first was against the cpu, i had just snapped the ball, freaked out and threw the ball away. second was against someone on the internet, again freaked, got scared and threw the ball away immediatley.

[havokeff]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

I have seen intentional grounding against the CPU and myself.

It has to be ridiculously obvious for it to be called against the CPU. Like, there can't even be a receiver on that side of the field. I think this can be solved by giving each WR a "bubble" of whatever the rule book says the distance for INT GRD needs to be.

I see plenty of Pass Interference... when I try to control CBs.
Nah, it happens against the CPU.

Honestly, and this is from watching people play, the reason PI doesn't get called more is because most people that play Madden wait for receivers to clear or get open and rarely throw at covered receivers.

Seriously, go try it out. Force yourself to throw a second before you want to. You are going to see more defensive PI.

Also because people wait longer, the DBs have a chance to look back for the ball and it goes from what would be PI to the DB going for the ball.

[stp2081]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

I agree about considering turning it off. If you want a challenge but also want it to be fair, that makes sense. I don't get why the CPU is so consistent at calling Intentional Grounding on the human QB (throwing the ball away while in the pocket, regardless of pressure faced), but virtually never calls it on itself.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: No Intentional Grounding

I have seen intentional grounding against the CPU and myself.

It has to be ridiculously obvious for it to be called against the CPU. Like, there can't even be a receiver on that side of the field. I think this can be solved by giving each WR a "bubble" of whatever the rule book says the distance for INT GRD needs to be.

I see plenty of Pass Interference... when I try to control CBs.
Nah, it happens against the CPU.

Honestly, and this is from watching people play, the reason PI doesn't get called more is because most people that play Madden wait for receivers to clear or get open and rarely throw at covered receivers.

Seriously, go try it out. Force yourself to throw a second before you want to. You are going to see more defensive PI.

Also because people wait longer, the DBs have a chance to look back for the ball and it goes from what would be PI to the DB going for the ball.

I think when people mention PI calls, they are also noticing the lack of illegal contact and defensive holding penalties. Receivers are constantly held and contacted beyond 5 yards by defenders in Madden.