46 Defense

[macbranson]

I don't think there are any teams that run a 46-Bear defense, but I would like to implement it as my base defense. Unfortunately, there are only a few 46 bear plays and we can no longer create plays or formations (as far as I know). Anyway, I have two questions:

1) Why does no team on the NFL run a 46 Bear defense?

2) What happened to creating plays?

[elijah53johnston]

Re: 46 Defense

i think the ravens run some form of it,but it is not popular because with all the spread offenses it doesnt match up well. I wish they would bring back create a play as well. It was one of my favorite features.
on a side note i do run the 46 with my texans franchise so if you have any questions just ask.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: 46 Defense

I don't think there are any teams that run a 46-Bear defense, but I would like to implement it as my base defense. Unfortunately, there are only a few 46 bear plays and we can no longer create plays or formations (as far as I know). Anyway, I have two questions:

1) Why does no team on the NFL run a 46 Bear defense?

2) What happened to creating plays?

In 1985, offenses were more condensed, ran things more out of pro sets. There wasn't the multiple/spread stuff that you see today, and there were a lot more 7 step drops, which played to the strength of the 46, which was about crowding the LOS and overwhelming the offense with numbers. Then Bill Walsh killed it with the West Coast, short, quick passing.

You can't run the Bear as an every down base because offenses have too much multiplicity. Modern offenses are built around "check with me's" where called run plays turn into quick passes, which is the Achilles Heel of the Bear. Quarterbacks don't hold onto the ball anymore, and your coverage options are limited in the Bear. Modern defenses are more and more becoming about Sub packages.

The Bear hasn't totally gone away. Teams still flash it as a change up. Tennessee ran it with Fisher; they still flash it with Jerry Gray, in fact, they still have it in their Madden 12 playbook. Gregg Williams toys around with it, the Ryan brothers, Wade Phillips, etc., but you need too much specialized personnel to run it as a base from press corners, big skilled down linemen who can play head up on o-linemen, yet are skilled enough to rush, a tweener safety/linebacker who can play in the box and cover, outside linebackers with pass rushing skills, etc.

To your second question. Create-a-play is in the same place as all the other neat amenities we used to take for granted, in last gen.

[macbranson]

Re: 46 Defense

That's why I started running the 46 Bear a lot this season. In the offseason I picked up Sam Acho who was Defensive MVP and is a good combination of pass rusher and cover LB. I also have Jon Beason and James Anderson who are solid LBs. at safety, I have Taylor Mays play in the box S he's a good combination of size, speed and tackling ability. My other safety, Charles Godfrey, plays deep because he has great speed an coverage skill. Both of my DEs are great pass rushers with over 90 overall ratings and 10+ sacks last season. Charles Johnson is more of a balanced, power guy while I have Courtney Upshaw on the right side who is more of a pure pass rusher. I think my team actually has the perfect combination of players to run the 46 Bear. Obviously, there are only a limited number of plays in that defense, but I have been using it at least 10 times a game and have had pretty good success with it.

@Elijah53, what team do you use and what Personnel do you use in your 46 Bear scheme?

[elijah53johnston]

Re: 46 Defense

@Elijah53, what team do you use and what Personnel do you use in your 46 Bear scheme?

I use the Texans, but i am now in year 3 so my defense looks a little different.
LE: Melvin Ingram(drafted)
RE: JJ Watt
DT: Phil Taylor and Jerrel Powe
LOLB: Brooks Reed
MLB: Brian Cushing
ROLB: Mario Williams-i am looking for a replacement here, so I can move him to LE
CB: Jonathan Joseph and Dre Kirpatrick(drafted)
FS: Damien Williams(drafted)
SS: Bacarri Rambo(drafted)

at LE i look for the traditional pass rusher
at DT anybody can really fit in
at RE i go for a more 3-4 style end because they usually line up more inside than a traditonal 4-3 end
LOLB: i look for a pass rusher
MLB: really important to have a stud here
ROLB: anyone really fits
CB: need to be lockdown and excel at man because they are one on one alot.
FS: probaly most important position since they are your only deep guy and is the last line of defense due to the SS playing like a linebacker.
SS: i look for a LB that is really fast and excels in coverage or a SS that is bigger and can tackle really well

[funnyfiggy]

Re: 46 Defense

i think the ravens run some form of it,but it is not popular because with all the spread offenses it doesnt match up well. I wish they would bring back create a play as well. It was one of my favorite features.

I was under the impression the Ryans brothers still ran their Dad's defense. What defense do the "best team in New York" and "America's Team" run?

[macbranson]

Re: 46 Defense

If I'm not mistaken, the Ryan brothers both run a 3-4 Multiple front defense.

[elijah53johnston]

Re: 46 Defense

the ryan brothers still use it as a package i believe, but they run the 3-4 as their base d

[macbranson]

Re: 46 Defense

What I've found is that the 46 Bear is actually very effective against the CPU or inexperienced human opponents. The CPU QB is usually not a very efficient passer and you can easily get a lot of pressure on the QB and force errant throws or interceptions. If I'm playing a low rated QB or a team that doesn't have fast WRs, I use it a lot more and it is incredibly effective. The same applies to human opponents. I even use it against 3 WR sets if I really have no respect for my opponent's passing game.

Basically, it's effective if you use it like a coach would use it in real life. You use it mainly to stop the run and generate pressure. If your opponent has 4 WRs on the field, you definitely don't want to come out in a 46 Bear. But the same applies for a 4-3 or 3-4, you're not going to keep your base formation on the field vs. 3, 4 or 5 WR sets. The main problem I've encountered hasn't been the passing game, but actually the nunning game. Even though it hasn't happened to me this season, the CPU can break some huge runs against the 46 Bear if the running back can get past the first line of defenders and someone misses a tackle.

There are very few teams on Madden capable of running 46 Bear as a base defense. The Ravens are the only team with all of the right personnel. The have a great MLB, a safety who can play center field, a solid tackling safety who they can put in the box, a good D-line and good CBs. The 49ers lack a big safety who they can put in the box, but they're almost equipped to run it. The Redskins also have good personnel, but lack good pass rushing DEs.

[funnyfiggy]

Re: 46 Defense

the ryan brothers still use it as a package i believe, but they run the 3-4 as their base d

If I'm not mistaken, the Ryan brothers both run a 3-4 Multiple front defense.

OK, thank you both for clearing that up.

[gjneff]

Re: 46 Defense

The 49ers lack a big safety who they can put in the box, but they're almost equipped to run it.

Donte Whitner is nothing but a box safety for 49ers.

[RogueHominid]

Re: 46 Defense

I'm bumping this to ask some questions about running this in Madden without the gamer's lab sort of shenanigans.

Which teams are best suited to run this in Madden 12? I can see how the Ravens would be a good fit, but I'm assuming that someone like Suggs would have to be converted to defensive end.

Are there other teams whose current builds are already conducive to running a 46 base defense? I play exclusively against the CPU, so dealing with the shotgun all game stuff isn't so much of an issue.

And if I were to run the 46 as a base defense, what kinds of passing downs formations and plays would make a good fit? I know there are all those 3-3 whatevers and so on.

Any help on the real life concepts and putting them to work in Madden would be greatly appreciated.

[PGaither84]

Re: 46 Defense

In short, as others have already answered, the death of the 46 is related to the death of the FB position. While some teams still use it, most teams are running 3 wide on most plays.

[RogueHominid]

Re: 46 Defense

In short, as others have already answered, the death of the 46 is related to the death of the FB position. While some teams still use it, most teams are running 3 wide on most plays.

I wonder why it's even in the game as a choosable play book then. I can't recall if most of the teams in offline franchise are indeed in three wide sets more often than not, but if that is the case then the play book seems useless.

[T-Moar]

Re: 46 Defense

I wonder why it's even in the game as a choosable play book then. I can't recall if most of the teams in offline franchise are indeed in three wide sets more often than not, but if that is the case then the play book seems useless.

It's in because some people (myself included) still like to run it, regardless of the fact that it's old and dead. Same thing with the Run 'N' Gun playbook. It also provides a few more plays for custom playbooks.

As for the person asking about running it with certain teams in Madden, I've gotten pretty decent success using the following lineup with the Texans:

----------------------Manning---------------Quin----------------------


------------------Reed------ Ryans------ Cushing----------------------
Joseph---------Williams ---Watt---Cody---Smith-----------------Jackson