My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

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  • DCEBB2001
    MVP
    • Nov 2008
    • 2569

    #1

    My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

    I cannot say I am surprised with these QB OVR ratings. Once again, you have way too many players over 95. I don't disagree so much with having 9 QBs over 90 (considering that I myself have 8 of them over 90 in the FBG Ratings), but having 5 above 95? That seems a bit top heavy even for being a QB-driven league.

    Think about this. The HOF players were rated 99 (Sanders, Sanders, and Irvin) in the primes of their careers according to EA. That means that 5 QBs right now are playing at near perfection, at accomplished by their predecessors.

    Now, I can see that being the case for Rodgers, Brady, and Brees right now, but all 3 are coming off of amazing seasons with great win totals, passing statistics, and physical/mental abilities on the football field.

    Let's carry this trend of 9 90+ rated players to all positions though. If every other position has at least 9 players rated in the 90s, that's almost 200 players rated over 90. To me, only the ELITE players should be rated a 90+. In the FBG system, there are less than 90 total 90s out of the 18500+ players rated. However, many positions don't even have a player in the 90s. Here is the breakdown of players in the 90s by position with the highest OVR for FBG:

    QB 8 (99)
    RB 9 (95)
    FB 0 (83)
    WR 10 (98)
    TE 6 (95)
    OT 8 (95)
    OG 3 (91)
    C 2 (92)
    K 1 (91)

    DE 4 (94)
    DT 9 (93)
    OLB 9 (97)
    ILB 7 (97)
    CB 6 (97)
    S (Free and Strong) 3 (92)
    P 2 (94)
    LS 0 (65)

    It seems to me that EA doesn't really evaluate the individual traits of each player, but rather simply "slots" them into a predetermined OVR. It is kind of like saying, "Well, we don't have anybody rated 93 on just overall talent, so let's take the best 92 we have and boost him up to a 93 so we have some variation."

    Does anybody else get that feeling? That EA simply slots players into an OVR without actually using logic and reason?

    The easy thing to do would be to either make everyone a 99 or simply subtract 1 point from each position as you go. At least THAT way we would get some variation between the best QB and the 99th best QB (hope you pick up on the sarcasm here because I am laying it on pretty darn thick).

    If EA used real player evaluation they would find that the best, CONSISTENT talent in the NFL is RARE. I don't even know if Rodgers can repeat the season he had last year, or anyone for that matter. The NFL is a game that rewards consistency until you can no longer produce. One bad season could end your career as you find yourself on the street. It shows not only that to make an NFL squad is hard and you have to produce, but that most players are pretty equal when it come to physical ability. It is, however, the technical skill that seperates the top from the bottom. THAT is where EA needs the most differentiation.

    Instead, EA has several players up at the top where technical and physical skills barely differ at all from a 99 to a 98 and so on. The only way to even notice a difference is when a player is a 99 and another is a 69. And even then, the 69 can be cheesed into producing like a 99 given his traits and your playbook.

    I could be totally off-base here, but that is the impression I get. If EA still has 10+ players in the 90s at each position, look for more inflation of the OVR ratings and subsequent attributes.

    Also, ask yourself if that 99 is really deserved. Does that WR with 99 SPD really possess Darrell Green/Bo Jackson/Deion Sanders speed? Does the QB with 99 THP really have an arm that rivals that of Terry Bradshaw, John Elway, Dan Marino, Joe Gilliam, or Brett Favre's in their primes? Is that RB with 99 JKM/SPM/AGI really as agile as Barry Sanders was for so many years in the early to mid 1990s? Does that WR really have hands as good as Jerry Rice's? Can a CB today match the MCV skills of Deion Sanders in his prime? Is your favorite LB really as hard of a hitter as Butkus, Nitschke, or LT?

    These are the questions we need to ask ourselves when these ratings are fully released. I understand that EA is trying to honor football legends this year, but by allowing us to vote on their counterparts' skills and have the ability to give someone the "99" in a category, we may actually be insulting the unmatchable talents from our hallowed football's past.
    Dan B.
    Player Ratings Administrator
    www.fbgratings.com/members
    NFL Scout
    www.nfldraftscout.com/members

    Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
    https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php
  • Broncos86
    Orange and Blue!
    • May 2009
    • 5505

    #2
    Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

    Considering ratings will always be subjective, what can one say? If you evaluate the WRs, and you say "well, I rated this guy a 92 last week, but now I'm looking at this guy and I think he's a 92. But the guy from last week is better. So I'll bump him up." It's all subjective.

    My only beef is that I'd rather see the ratings strung out more.

    Comment

    • SteelerSpartan
      MVP
      • Apr 2007
      • 2884

      #3
      Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

      Yep I want the ratings spread/system redone so that it uses the full 0-100

      90+ should be "Greatest Player Ever at the Position" Category
      Here We Go Steelers!!! Here We Go!!!

      My CFB Teams:
      Marshall..WVU-Go Herd/Eeers!!!


      Comment

      • Big FN Deal
        Banned
        • Aug 2011
        • 5993

        #4
        Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

        Originally posted by Broncos86
        Considering ratings will always be subjective, what can one say? If you evaluate the WRs, and you say "well, I rated this guy a 92 last week, but now I'm looking at this guy and I think he's a 92. But the guy from last week is better. So I'll bump him up." It's all subjective.

        My only beef is that I'd rather see the ratings strung out more.
        Ugh! lol, Ratings do not have to be subjective IF they use verifiable data in a universal formula(s) for them. Then the formula(s), ie method for calculating ratings is subjective, not the ratings themselves. There really is a big difference because the universal format allows for balance through measured scaling while subjective ratings cause an unstructured mess, imo.

        Comment

        • bukktown
          MVP
          • Jan 2007
          • 3257

          #5
          Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

          Originally posted by Broncos86
          Considering ratings will always be subjective, what can one say? If you evaluate the WRs, and you say "well, I rated this guy a 92 last week, but now I'm looking at this guy and I think he's a 92. But the guy from last week is better. So I'll bump him up." It's all subjective.

          My only beef is that I'd rather see the ratings strung out more.
          That first sentence is a little bit closed minded if you are talking about the genre in general. They can make ratings totally derived from statistics. The data is available. Football outsiders has a phenomenal database.

          If you are only talking about Madden, then yea that ship done sailed with the voting on ratings crap.

          Comment

          • DeuceDouglas
            Madden Dev Team
            • Apr 2010
            • 4297

            #6
            Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

            Originally posted by Big FN Deal
            Ugh! lol, Ratings do not have to be subjective IF they use verifiable data in a universal formula(s) for them. Then the formula(s), ie method for calculating ratings is subjective, not the ratings themselves. There really is a big difference because the universal format allows for balance through measured scaling while subjective ratings cause an unstructured mess, imo.
            My only question for that would then be what about attributes like Run Blocking and other attributes where it's a lot more difficult than just correlating a 40 time or bench press reps to a certain attribute.

            Comment

            • Gaycandybacon
              Rookie
              • May 2012
              • 154

              #7
              Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

              Originally posted by at23steelers
              Verifiable Data.....hmm, must not be in the EA dictionary. What about fans voting for their favorite players to help set some ratings, or in prior years their overall rating? How about that for objective use of how to do ratings??!! Now, that's something that seems smart to me. Who cares about universal formulas and actual real time data and all that complicated schematics, when you can just let the fans decide because Im sure they are all unbiased!!
              It's like you're saying the fans pick every single rating of every single player in the league. lmao. When it all comes down to it, Donny will have the last say of the ratings. If he thinks a rating is farfetched from a fan voting he will probably change it. It's not like RG3 is gonna have a 99 SPD rating..
              Packers fan since 92' GO PACK GO!!

              Gamertag: Gaycandybacon Add me :D

              Twitter: @Gaycandybacon

              Comment

              • gjneff
                Rookie
                • May 2010
                • 194

                #8
                Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

                Originally posted by DeuceDouglas
                My only question for that would then be what about attributes like Run Blocking and other attributes where it's a lot more difficult than just correlating a 40 time or bench press reps to a certain attribute.
                That's true, but it's a good start to at least get the measurables right since you can get the hard data to base it on. And advanced statistics like football outsiders uses would give a great road map for everything else.

                Comment

                • mpeterso
                  Rookie
                  • May 2006
                  • 146

                  #9
                  Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

                  Originally posted by SteelerSpartan
                  Yep I want the ratings spread/system redone so that it uses the full 0-100

                  90+ should be "Greatest Player Ever at the Position" Category
                  How many nfl players who actually played in the league are 100 times worse than the all time greats?

                  5 times worse, probably. 10 times worse, maybe. 100 times worse, don't think so....

                  Comment

                  • Jdoug312
                    Banned
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 1585

                    #10
                    Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

                    Originally posted by SteelerSpartan
                    Yep I want the ratings spread/system redone so that it uses the full 0-100

                    90+ should be "Greatest Player Ever at the Position" Category
                    Even with spread out ratings, you can't realistically use the full scale for 0-100. Think about it, are you really going to keep an 8 ovr player on your team? Even with spread out ratings, I wouldn't look at anyone under a 60 ovr, this is after all the NFL. The problem with EA however, is that (1) the ratings are not spread out, and (2) as DCEBB said, EA is top-heavy.

                    Comment

                    • R9NALD9
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 1268

                      #11
                      Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

                      My problems with the ratings is, that have the 49ers manage to win the NFCCG and gone on to win the Superbowl, then Alex Smith would've been rated in the 90's...guaranteed.

                      EA is too easily influenced by hype and superbowl winner medal instead of actually breaking down each players skills.

                      Like mentioned...a guy like Montana should be rated 99 overall. Not Rogers, Bracy etc. They are basically saying there is a bunch of players just as good or fractionally worse than Montana currently playing football.
                      San Francisco 49ers
                      San Francisco Giants
                      Chicago Bulls

                      Comment

                      • DeuceDouglas
                        Madden Dev Team
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 4297

                        #12
                        Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

                        Originally posted by R9NALD9
                        My problems with the ratings is, that have the 49ers manage to win the NFCCG and gone on to win the Superbowl, then Alex Smith would've been rated in the 90's...guaranteed.

                        EA is too easily influenced by hype and superbowl winner medal instead of actually breaking down each players skills.

                        Like mentioned...a guy like Montana should be rated 99 overall. Not Rogers, Bracy etc. They are basically saying there is a bunch of players just as good or fractionally worse than Montana currently playing football.
                        In reality though, a guy like Brady is well on his way to the HoF, Brees will probably be there as well, so shouldn't their ratings be comparable to other similar players?

                        Comment

                        • Nev
                          Rookie
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 168

                          #13
                          Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

                          I think they should emulate FIFA in stretching the ratings out.

                          Lionel Messi - Best player in the world. Arguably the best footballer to ever play the game... 94 Overall.

                          I bet you would run out of fingers & toes counting the Madden players above 94. lol

                          Comment

                          • JayInSaratoga
                            Rookie
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 233

                            #14
                            Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

                            Multiple passers threw for over or very near 5000 yards and Drew Brees obliterated the single season record this past season. I don't have a problem with the bunch of QBs at the top of this list having high ratings. They deserve it based on their play.

                            If 5 players over 95 becomes the norm for all positions though, then maybe there is a problem with over-inflated ratings.

                            Comment

                            • KBLover
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 12172

                              #15
                              Re: My take on the "Injustice" of Madden 13 Ratings

                              Originally posted by Broncos86
                              Considering ratings will always be subjective, what can one say? If you evaluate the WRs, and you say "well, I rated this guy a 92 last week, but now I'm looking at this guy and I think he's a 92. But the guy from last week is better. So I'll bump him up." It's all subjective.
                              That's a horrible way to rate players.

                              It is subjective, but some systems are still better than others. Especially for individual skills, a good system would have standards as a basis at least.

                              Like with the example of speed. Sure, part of it might be subjective, but if 99 is supposed to represent best in the league - how many "best in the league" can you have without it being silly?

                              If 99 is supposed to represent best EVER, then how many should you have in a league? How many players are among the best EVER in a skill?

                              So what does EA ratings represent? Is 99 best EVER or best NOW, and then from there, how do the players get ranked? What governs a change in rank?

                              If it's just "well I think he's better than him today, so I'll give him some 'extra points', then that's not a good system.

                              The ratings being stretched out would likely happen if EA actually allowed the ratings to establish clear poor/bad/average/good/elite type tiers. Especially for the mental/technique ratings where there's more likely to be some wide differences in abilities.

                              Physical ratings should at least be influenced by what the player can physically do. How fast can the fastest and slowest guy run (use in-pads/in-game speed if possible)? Set that and scale the rest from there. Same for first 10-yards speed (ACC), etc.

                              Some physical ratings are going to be "eyeballed" like AGI and JKM, but there's still someone who was the best at it (like Barry Sanders) so a player like that should be the standard.
                              "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

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