Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

[Danimal]

I want to be clear that I am not calling this a bug. I just want to have a discussion on what I am seeing and hear peoples thoughts. I'm also not one to usually do tests like this but I'm just a bit frustrated because I think M13 is so close to being an awesome game.

Something about fatigue and auto subs was bothering me. I usually don't notice anything out of whack. I normally set my auto subs and they work and I move on. For whatever reason something didn't feel right so I did a test last night, which is not complete yet btw.

I played some offline games just to test subs. I did this on all-pro with the Bears.

First Test
I set my HB Sub Out at 99 and Sun In at 100. I left the fatigue slider at 50.

I ran Forte on 7 straight dive plays.
On 4th play he turned yellow.
On 6th play he turned orange
On 7th play he turned red.
Next play he is out.

Bush comes in on 3rd play he is yellow,
on 4th play orange
On 5th play red but drive ended.

Forte despite being set at 99 / 100 didn't come out of the game right away or come right back in. I'm keeping in mind this was at the start of the game but what does this mean? That when someone turns red they have reached the AS number? So after 7 plays Forte was at 99 stamina or whatver they are measuring?

Next Test Same auto subs settings but I set the fatigue slider to 70.
Play 3 forte is orange
Play 4 he is red
Play 5 he is out.

This sounds about right since the fatigue slider went up 20 points but he is set to 99/100 why is he in so long?

Next Tests Auto Sub Out set to 90 and Sub In set to 95. Fatigue slider still at 70
Play 3 forte is orange
Play 4 he is red
Play 5 he is out.
Play 6 Bush is blue
Play 8 Bush is yellow
Play 9 Bush is red
Play 10 he is out and Forte is in at yellow.

So it appears changing the Auto Subs did nothing to effect when he comes in and out of the game. It seems like the only thing having any kind of effect is the fatigue slider. If that is the case what is the Auto Subs function?

I plan to test this some more with higher fatigue slider and then in NCAA to see what kind of results I get. Again this is not something I normally do I just wanted to try something and then curiosity got the better of me.

[CRMosier_LM]

I want to be clear that I am not calling this a bug. I just want to have a discussion on what I am seeing and hear peoples thoughts. I'm also not one to usually do tests like this but I'm just a bit frustrated because I think M13 is so close to being an awesome game.

Something about fatigue and auto subs was bothering me. I usually don't notice anything out of whack. I normally set my auto subs and they work and I move on. For whatever reason something didn't feel right so I did a test last night, which is not complete yet btw.

I played some offline games just to test subs. I did this on all-pro with the Bears.

First Test
I set my HB Sub Out at 99 and Sun In at 100. I left the fatigue slider at 50.

I ran Forte on 7 straight dive plays.
On 4th play he turned yellow.
On 6th play he turned orange
On 7th play he turned red.
Next play he is out.

Bush comes in on 3rd play he is yellow,
on 4th play orange
On 5th play red but drive ended.

Forte despite being set at 99 / 100 didn't come out of the game right away or come right back in. I'm keeping in mind this was at the start of the game but what does this mean? That when someone turns red they have reached the AS number? So after 7 plays Forte was at 99 stamina or whatver they are measuring?

Next Test Same auto subs settings but I set the fatigue slider to 70.
Play 3 forte is orange
Play 4 he is red
Play 5 he is out.

This sounds about right since the fatigue slider went up 20 points but he is set to 99/100 why is he in so long?

Next Tests Auto Sub Out set to 90 and Sub In set to 95. Fatigue slider still at 70
Play 3 forte is orange
Play 4 he is red
Play 5 he is out.
Play 6 Bush is blue
Play 8 Bush is yellow
Play 9 Bush is red
Play 10 he is out and Forte is in at yellow.

So it appears changing the Auto Subs did nothing to effect when he comes in and out of the game. It seems like the only thing having any kind of effect is the fatigue slider. If that is the case what is the Auto Subs function?

I plan to test this some more with higher fatigue slider and then in NCAA to see what kind of results I get. Again this is not something I normally do I just wanted to try something and then curiosity got the better of me.

Let me know how it goes. I don't less with sliders but I can pass your results on up. If you want you can email them to me as well.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[RGiles36]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

You said you're playing offline, but are you playing within CCM? If so, that makes sense b/c the auto-sub sliders are not working.

If you're playing in play now, the auto sub sliders should be working and most of experienes w/ M13 suggest they are.

It's CCM where you run into auto-sub problems. You can increase fatigue to compensate, but the caveat is that you'll see players subbing who wouldn't in real life (OL, LB & S to a lesser degree). So the question (until/if it's fixed) is where is the balance? At what point can fatigue be set to guarantee your back-up RBs get carries yet your OL doesn't sub out?

[Danimal]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

Thanks RG you saved me from testing more. I didn't know Auto Subs wasn't working. Did a search before posting and didn't find a thread, even used a google search as well.

[leathrneck34]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

Yea CCM auto-subs are bugged out but fatigue can compensate like RG said. However I find it to be a pretty important thing to have my O-line and such sub out if they are red since red would indicate a player not playing his position to the best of his ability.

[RGiles36]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

Thanks RG you saved me from testing more. I didn't know Auto Subs wasn't working. Did a search before posting and didn't find a thread, even used a google search as well.

Not a problem. I guess it's b/c the game just came out, but with all the slider gurus on this forum, I'm surprised this issue hasn't garnered more attention.

It's a pain in my butt as someone who likes to see the backups get quality snaps.

Yea CCM auto-subs are bugged out but fatigue can compensate like RG said. However I find it to be a pretty important thing to have my O-line and such sub out if they are red since red would indicate a player not playing his position to the best of his ability.

Yeah, but it's not realistic. Your starting OL is your starting OL throughout the entire game IRL. Your starting LT isn't supposed to sub out -- even if he's gassed, the back up could come in and get your QB killed.

That's the importance of auto subs. Ideally my back ups at the skilled positions will get snaps, but the guys who play the entire game should play the entire game.

[kwabalicious]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

EA needs an offline coaches philosophy menu (for play now and ccm) which includes sliders for RB1 vs RB2 carries. It would make this frustrating issue so much easier. I would also like to see a slot in the depth chart for a short yardage runningback (3rd or 4th and 2), and maybe even a goal-line back (In pittsburgh, Redman was the short yardage back, but Mendy was the goal-line back under Arians' offense).

[splff3000]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

Oh wow, didn't know about this. This explains alot.

[MMurda]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

one thing about auto subs is you cant set the numbers that close, even if there is no bug present...im referring to ur out 99/ in 100. thats essentially out and right back in...in which he prolly wont even leave the field at all like u experienced until quite a few plays are ran and hes able to be forced below 99. fatigue is progressive too. it takes longer in the beginning to go down in fatigue than it does in the 2nd qtr for instance. and it does vary depending on the play and how it went. did u run 2 yds and get tackled quick...or did u do a sweep gun it to the outside with turbo for 5yds. or did u get hit pretty hard on the last play...it all seems to matter.

but either way, i wouldnt set the ins/outs so close if u want them to actually go out at all or for more than one play at a time. i usually do 10pt diffs or so...no less than 7pt diffs. that way when he goes out...im giving him a lil more time to take a breather and get my backup 2+ plays in a row depending on what part of the game its in.

so is autosubs broken on offline or online ccm? i have my fatigue for play now at 53 and my subs for skill guys is 70 out/80 in. on long drives im getting plenty of sub action all around even in the 1st qtr. its makes those 3rd down conversions hurt when ur already tired. for my oline i have it at 67/80. i may back that up to 65/80 tho. i dont want oline to sub alot, but i do want them to drop in and get a few snaps a gm cuz we all know starter oline rarely get injured in played gms so backups ride the pine and regress. maybe now tho with us controlling our destiny with progression i can focus on bettering backup oline without them needing as many snaps...

oh yea...im running 7-8 min qtrs for reference

[aholbert32]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

Damn Auto Subs dont work in CCM? Jesus this is a cluster****. They took away our ability to edit cpu teams formation subs and the only way to get consistent carries from the 2nd RB on a cpu team is auto subs. Now that doesnt even work.

[crosstheriver]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

Damn Auto Subs dont work in CCM? Jesus this is a cluster****. They took away our ability to edit cpu teams formation subs and the only way to get consistent carries from the 2nd RB on a cpu team is auto subs. Now that doesnt even work.

I've been using my "spell HB" sub in package when my starter gets yellow. Of course I have to flip it back when my starter gets rested but it's at least a workaround.

[jdefreitas]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

Now with the era of the committee backfield and depth being more important than ever, I really try and make sure my auto subs are realistic. This definitely is a buzz kill... especially now that I want to use Hillman as my Darren Sproles wannabe back and Mcgahee as my primary runner.

Guess I'll have to settle for formation subs until this is fixed.

[aholbert32]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

I've been using my "spell HB" sub in package when my starter gets yellow. Of course I have to flip it back when my starter gets rested but it's at least a workaround.

My concern is with the cpu teams. I can control when I sub in my RBs but without CPU formation sub control (taken away this year) or auto subs (bugged on CCM) the CPU will run the same RB the entire game. If I play against the saints, Thomas, Ingram and Sproles should get carries. Without auto subs only, Thomas will get carries with Sproles only coming in as the 3rd down back.

[crosstheriver]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

My concern is with the cpu teams. I can control when I sub in my RBs but without CPU formation sub control (taken away this year) or auto subs (bugged on CCM) the CPU will run the same RB the entire game. If I play against the saints, Thomas, Ingram and Sproles should get carries. Without auto subs only, Thomas will get carries with Sproles only coming in as the 3rd down back.

Ah of course. Yeah I agree. I am thinking they will fix the auto-sub thing though. that's a pretty important part of the "immersion factor" that Looman spent a lot of time talking about. not having backups get carries is a pretty big immersion breaker.

[Danimal]

Re: Fatigue and Auto Sub discussion

so is autosubs broken on offline or online ccm?

It's broken in both. I'm not sure why people keep thinking online and offline CCM are different when EA spent months telling us it was the same thing.

As for your other note I wasn't expecting realistic result with 99/100 which is why I set it to 90/95, then 80/85 none of that matters because only the fatigue slider works.