Hope for improving Madden

[GiantBlue76]

If Madden is ever going to be taken seriously and the gameplay programmers at Tiburon are to earn respect again, there are many, many things that need to be fixed from a purely football perspective. One of the BIGGEST issues and a personal peeve of mine regarding this game is perfectly illustrated in this video. This is not a bashing thread, but it's something I wanted to bring some attention to because it's something that rears its ugly head countless times in every game of Madden you play. Tiburon folks want to know what destroys the immersion and the realism on the field? This is one of the biggest things. I have posted countless times on players moving in unison and it is a total killer. Discuss...

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UTa6FvposKo" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

[KBLover]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

Completely agree.

Shows how the AI seems to work on the player level. Both players have the same "goal" so they both react the same way if they were fooled by the spin. The Punter does too and was fooled, so he reacted. The other players don't (they were trying to get off blocks, or passed their check) so they don't consider the spin and don't check to be fooled or not.

Seems that being fooled on a move should be checked only within a certain radius, but it looks like that's how they make the spin more effective, by giving the chance for more players to get thrown off by it. Leaving it more "random" as to who it is and how effective.

Same for #52. He has no "goal" so he's looking for one and it looks like he's just wandering around aimlessly. It's silly also because he let a 49er zip right by him, but his "goal" doesn't change to "find someone to block" until the punt returner has the ball. THEN he's looking for someone to block, doesn't find anyone until the returner heads upfield when he goes to try to block one of the 49ers and is pushed down by one chasing in pursuit. (I see it on stretch plays where the blockers follow MY movement instead of seeing with their own eyes [AWR, IBL] and just finding someone who presents a threat to take me down and trying to block him).

It's really, really annoying. It's probably why people say ratings don't do anything because PUR doesn't have anything to do with not being thrown off your pursuit angle by changes in direction as you think it would.

When you say a guy has good pursuit in football, this is one of things it means, the guy tracks the ball carrier, anticipates well, keeps his balance on the move - a spin against someone like that would work only if the ball carrier can throw off the momentum of the defender - using the spin to get a quick change of direction towards the area "behind" the defender. A trailing defender, like the two on the play that mirror animated, should not even consider a spin a threat - a juke would be more threatening to the defender further out because the ball carrier threatens a change of direction, but to the closest one - he should just try to lay a hit on Royal, or at least dive at the feet - he's RIGHT THERE, just engage the ball carrier low and take him down.

But in Madden, all the "moves" are just for breaking tackles and creating these "fooled" animations so you can keep running, and which one to use is more by "which one is the best" instead of situation and type of pursuit the defender is giving and/or the ball carrier is trying to escape.

Ratings seem also more about "goal assignment". So RBK does probably increase the duration of a block, but it seems to impact if the blocking goal is "picked up on" by the player (along with AWR). When it's not, you see more situations like what #52 is doing. Lead blockers that just wonder around and stand in the way of you, blocking the wrong player (again not using his eyes and knowing his responsibility on the play).

[SynShadowzz]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

My favorite part is #52 on the Bills running around, looking for a "task" until #90(?) from the 49ers just runs up to him and shoves him to the ground.

[KBLover]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

Even the other players on the field thought he was just in the way "Out of the way. We're trying to play football here."

[heime2003]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

i hope they would make football game like 2k sports

AI problem, robotic movement, many non sense in gameplay should be fixed

but idk they are capable.

[LBzrule]

Re: Hope for improving Madden



Hope!!! Hope is a disease in your soul. With EA there is no hope.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

Did anyone else shake their head in complete disgust at this video - especially when the punter got faked out? It's really pretty amazing.

[niharjhatn]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

Did anyone else shake their head in complete disgust at this video - especially when the punter got faked out? It's really pretty amazing.

Yeah, broken scripted load of crap.

Given how sports games push offline game modes soo hard, its still surprising they put all this effort into that without even considering how the AI plays.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

Did anyone else shake their head in complete disgust at this video - especially when the punter got faked out? It's really pretty amazing.

What's going to be amazing is come March or so, when all the hype starts up, the way all this stuff will be forgotten by many. Even with all the things that have happened, not the least of which an actual former EA Tiburon employee "telling all".

There are many games that I play or have played, that clearly aren't reasonably realistic and I am ok with that but they don't claim to try to be. Those claiming that Madden is being designed for optimal NFL realism, are clearly mistaken. Moody correctly notes in the video, that none of this will likely change anything but he is just pointing it out anyway. I really thank God for my sense of humor because at this point these type of glaring issues and the lack of any substantive effort to address them is comical, imo.

[KBLover]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

Did anyone else shake their head in complete disgust at this video - especially when the punter got faked out? It's really pretty amazing.

The punter...that was like...Wait...what? *rewinds* What is he... *rewinds*

Insane.

That and #52. Literally was shaking my head - which turned to laughter when he got pushed down. Poor #52.

[LBzrule]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

Did anyone else shake their head in complete disgust at this video - especially when the punter got faked out? It's really pretty amazing.

I got a video that's mind boggling. Check this one out. I didn't playmaker the WR either. You can tell it's bugged play too because I was trying to chase the defender with Flacco and I couldn't move.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RxuXomwJwdc?list=UUl6VDza1JJqKO2YuBUGsrpg&amp;hl=e n_US" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This was me when it happened



I'm going to write a review of the game after a few months. All I can say is the core of the experience has NOT changed. I will say more what I mean by that in the review.

[TreFacTor]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

Synchronized and over repeated animations are just one of the things that kill this game. There are supposed to be thousands of animations in the game, but you never get to see them because everyone's doing the same things at the same time on the field. It gets tiring seeing the user controlled DE roll over the Tackle, or the DE shoved to the ground by the Tackle...this was an issue in 09 and hasn't been addressed and probably will never be addressed as long as the game continues to be built with the stick jockey in mind when developing the game play.

[preaceps]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

What Madden really needs is to split the processes. I am no programer, hell I can just about hit the on button as my max use, but it seems to me that it is too much piggybacking for programming. My guess is that they used code for the defense as a whole to react, same with blocking problems in madden. Most likely they did this so that increased graphics could be used without lagging the system. But thing is I bet most of us would be happy with like M10 graphics if maddens code was such that every play is running 22 different scripts. Meaning that each individual is broadcasting to other what is happening, IE handing off the ball for a run. Then the corresponding scripts, 11 on defense in this case, react to the change in environment. Obviously based on the predetermined stats as AWR and Play Rec.

Of course this would lead to lag and isn't done, but I bet you that it would fix stuff like a punter getting faked out by someone 35 yds downfield, blockers always knowing all the people who are blitzing/what stunts are being ran, hell maybe even the crappy zone coverage. This is what I would like to see, a real football sim game with slightly worse graphics than current but actual REALISM, otherwise just give me blitz back.

[cpic1]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

I didn't see anything wrong with what #52 did. I am a Rams fan so the last 5 years I have seen plenty of players just running around not knowing what they are doing

[pbni508]

Re: Hope for improving Madden

Ratings seem also more about "goal assignment". So RBK does probably increase the duration of a block, but it seems to impact if the blocking goal is "picked up on" by the player (along with AWR). When it's not, you see more situations like what #52 is doing. Lead blockers that just wonder around and stand in the way of you, blocking the wrong player (again not using his eyes and knowing his responsibility on the play).

This one kills me. I hate to do a toss play or a power play where my lead blocker gets out in front and doesn't look to drill someone in the second level. I see it mostly with the pulling guards. It is like they look for a DE to hit but not a LB in the second level. It turns a toss or a power that could be 5 to 10 yards, depending on the RB, into 2 to 3 yards.

I do wish I could say it was the LB making an awesome play and blowing up the run but its not like they are shooting down the LOS to get into the back field.