Madden 13 Roundtable

[jpdavis82]

http://underthecode.com/2013/02/19/m...13-roundtable/

A final look back at Madden 13 with some of the EA GameChangers, hope you guys enjoy this, I know I did. I think most of you will find this to be a fair honest assessment of Madden 13 and hopefully give a greater understanding of what being a Game Changer is all about to those who misunderstand it.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

What are everyone's thoughts on this? I'm going to use some of the feedback on this to give to the devs. What do you guys agree/disagree with what they said? What were your fav/least fav features/modes in Madden 13? What did you play the most in Madden 13? What did you play the least? What would you like to see added/removed for Madden 25?

[22cedric]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

I agree with the point they mentioned about O-Line/D-Line interations & player movement.

[azdawgpound]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

What are everyone's thoughts on this? I'm going to use some of the feedback on this to give to the devs. What do you guys agree/disagree with what they said? What were your fav/least fav features/modes in Madden 13? What did you play the most in Madden 13? What did you play the least? What would you like to see added/removed for Madden 25?

i mostly played play now mode because of all the issues CCM was having both offline and online i did actually play a whole ccm but that was after the season was over and then stopped. i would like them to add back in in game saves and full player editing like the ps2 had wish they would remove MUT just seems me a useless mode like i've said before if u want to collect cards go buy some real packs of cards just seems like this mode gets most attention out of all modes because they update it yr around. i did play some online games but not much as i did in 12 i didnt even play 50 games online this yr. i hope like meantioned the oline-dline gets most attention this yr and cb-wr as well.

[moylan1234]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

Reading this reinforces for me how far apart I am from the gamechangers. There isn't one aspect of CC that I like and I feel the xfinity engine is no where near ready for primetime. I really think they should of waited at least another year to implement both features.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

Reading this reinforces for me how far apart I am from the gamechangers. There isn't one aspect of CC that I like and I feel the xfinity engine is no where near ready for primetime. I really think they should of waited at least another year to implement both features.

As someone who has been playing Madden since 92 I really never understood why people were up in arms about CCM being so much worse than Franchise Mode. There were a few differences but it wasn't this huge earth shattering difference between the two. Not only that, but I think CCM is a huge step in the right direction and like the GC's said once they have it fully functioning and built upon in the next few year's I think more and more people will fall in love with CCM, IF they also make the gameplay improvements that must happen with it.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

It seemed like they knew the major problems of what Madden needs. However, the whole tone throughout was "lets overly praise Madden for its new features" and lets "not make a huge deal of its total failures." The first question sums it up perfectly. The downside to Madden is you have to win by using non-football strategies. IE might be the most revolutionary feature in 5 years, but it had so many negatives in this game, that didn't really bother them. While a decent article, they were definitely not critical enough, and almost gave the Madden team a pass because of "effort." They're like: well it's not as bad as the past 6 versions, so lets just overly praise them. It's like when a teacher praises a failing kid for getting a D+ this time.

I'm going to play devil's advocate, if they hadn't added the Infinity Engine or left Online Franchise untouched another year, then everyone would be complaining about how stale this franchise is getting. Yes, the changes they made may not have been perfect, but had they not made them Madden would be in a worse not better place today and for the future. That's a fact. They have to improve and build upon these changes or they were meaningless, but as long as they do, Madden is going to improve year after year from now on, not regress or stay the same.

[rootofalleli]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

It seemed like they knew the major problems of what Madden needs. However, the whole tone throughout was "lets overly praise Madden for its new features" and lets "not make a huge deal of its total failures." The first question sums it up perfectly. The downside to Madden is you have to win by using non-football strategies. IE might be the most revolutionary feature in 5 years, but it had so many negatives in this game, that didn't really bother them. While a decent article, they were definitely not critical enough, and almost gave the Madden team a pass because of "effort." They're like: well it's not as bad as the past 6 versions, so lets just overly praise them. It's like when a teacher praises a failing kid for getting a D+ this time.

Yeah, I hate to be a rain cloud all the time, but I too can't really understand why the writers here are so positive. I want to believe that EA is capable of building on this year's effort. Nothing I've seen in the last few iterations of the game suggests that, however. The current generation of Madden has been characterized by abandoned features, frequent turnover, and an overall unpolished product. I'm sure CCM and IE will be back, but I don't have much confidence they'll be much better.

I won't be shocked if CCM still lacks last gen features like restricted free agency, out of game sub package edits, and credible sim engine results. I don't expect any real depth or innovation in terms of football strategy or personnel decisions. I'd likewise be unsurprised to see 230 lb RBs flip over whenever a teammate or opposing player touches them. I won't be shocked to see suction blocks and tackles, warping, inexplicable blocking AI (e.g. FB running away from point of attack), DBs and WRs not even reaching towards the ball, and so on. God knows I want to be pleasantly surprised, but I have zero confidence that I will be.

[moylan1234]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

As someone who has been playing Madden since 92 I really never understood why people were up in arms about CCM being so much worse than Franchise Mode. There were a few differences but it wasn't this huge earth shattering difference between the two. Not only that, but I think CCM is a huge step in the right direction and like the GC's said once they have it fully functioning and built upon in the next few year's I think more and more people will fall in love with CCM, IF they also make the gameplay improvements that must happen with it.

How big the difference is all depends on how you play the game. For me CC is totally void of every thing that made playing madden fun. I do call it earth shattering because last year at this time I was still playing and enjoying M12 despite its on field flaws, because it let me have full control over building my team the way I wanted too.

And I'm only judging the mode on what I see in front of me right now. I'm not going to let my mind go with what it could turn into one day down the road because EA hasn't earned that type of trust from me.

Several gamechangers also said M13 would make us forget about older games. They couldn't of been more wrong there so I have no reason to believe anything they're saying about the future of this mode.

[Smoke6]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

I give up man, i think I hit the ceiling with all this and just fed up of the "gonna give this to the devs" talk. Its been this way for the past 13yrs man and we're still taking baby steps.

tired of wishing and hoping and my dreams getting crushed, a whole generation went by and 99% of everything we been clamoring for has been ignored with the same excuses time and time again. It ends for me tonight, if nex gen madden doesnt live up to the challenge, then im done hoping and wishing and will just accept it for being and arcade/blitz simulator and nothing more.

There's no strategy to this game what-so-ever when you have people who have certain plays and things figured out beyond the scope of the AI in this game. I am pretty sure there is nothing to relay to the dev team that they are not aware of, its just pointless to me now.

Sorry for the rant, I just spent most of my day just watching youtube madden video's and things (bored) along with reading threads in forums pertaining to issues and stuff with madden. I realized that I was being blind (by option) to the fact that I didnt want to believe this was happening and the devs would be really listening to our pleas.

Right now to me, madden is just another game in the "Action Sports" genre to me until further notice.

But like I said, sorry for the derail/rant man, this thread just touched a nerve. I apologize for all the people I blasted on here who have felt this way for a long time by the way they post. I finally have seen the light.

[moylan1234]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

It seemed like they knew the major problems of what Madden needs. However, the whole tone throughout was "lets overly praise Madden for its new features" and lets "not make a huge deal of its total failures." The first question sums it up perfectly. The downside to Madden is you have to win by using non-football strategies. IE might be the most revolutionary feature in 5 years, but it had so many negatives in this game, that didn't really bother them. While a decent article, they were definitely not critical enough, and almost gave the Madden team a pass because of "effort." They're like: well it's not as bad as the past 6 versions, so lets just overly praise them. It's like when a teacher praises a failing kid for getting a D+ this time.

I agree with your post. just wish that last line didn't hit so close to home

[roadman]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

It seemed like they knew the major problems of what Madden needs. However, the whole tone throughout was "lets overly praise Madden for its new features" and lets "not make a huge deal of its total failures." The first question sums it up perfectly. The downside to Madden is you have to win by using non-football strategies. IE might be the most revolutionary feature in 5 years, but it had so many negatives in this game, that didn't really bother them. While a decent article, they were definitely not critical enough, and almost gave the Madden team a pass because of "effort." They're like: well it's not as bad as the past 6 versions, so lets just overly praise them. It's like when a teacher praises a failing kid for getting a D+ this time.

I didn't get that when I read the article.

I saw some constructive criticism in most of the answers in there, especially on what the series needs.

I wasn't expecting an article of critical failures of the game.

I saw a common thread of what I am looking for in the series to move forward, and that was what was important for me.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

As someone who has been playing Madden since 92 I really never understood why people were up in arms about CCM being so much worse than Franchise Mode. There were a few differences but it wasn't this huge earth shattering difference between the two. Not only that, but I think CCM is a huge step in the right direction and like the GC's said once they have it fully functioning and built upon in the next few year's I think more and more people will fall in love with CCM, IF they also make the gameplay improvements that must happen with it.

Out of the box CCM was an extremely narrow experience. The true sim guys couldn't get NCAA draft classes, couldn't edit players, and saw the CPU make baffling decisions. The guys who just wanted to goof around couldn't fantasy draft, couldn't change schemes without retiring, and had to wait weeks and weeks for an updated roster.

And both groups got punched in the mouth by the salary cap glitches.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

I'm going to play devil's advocate, if they hadn't added the Infinity Engine or left Online Franchise untouched another year, then everyone would be complaining about how stale this franchise is getting. Yes, the changes they made may not have been perfect, but had they not made them Madden would be in a worse not better place today and for the future. That's a fact. They have to improve and build upon these changes or they were meaningless, but as long as they do, Madden is going to improve year after year from now on, not regress or stay the same.

What you are failing to realize is that it doesn't matter what you add if it doesn't work properly or if it doesn't enhance the game. Customers are not beta testers and should not be used as guinea pigs to test out incremental releases. When software is released to the general public, they expect it to work and work well, otherwise it's not useful and there is no sense in buying it. You don't get an A for effort. If I made cars and the brakes only worked some of the time, the engine only started on Tuesdays and the paint would only maintain if you lived in the south, I'm not going to be praised because I claim to have worked hard on it. Everyone in games works hard. That's the main issue with Tiburon and it's been that way for a long time. They are delusional when it comes to their product and that stems from being the only game.

As far as that article, in all honesty, there was nothing in there that surprised me. It's obvious how the GC program really works and it's been called out on here by so many it's not worth mentioning again. The gamechangers (98% of them anyway) already like the game and think it's good. I think the infinity engine is implemented poorly, but I don't even care as much about that because it is a first crack at physics. However, what DOES bother me is how it was marketed as complete and utter bullcrap. "No two plays will ever be the same", "Canned animations are gone". Really? Play one game and you see the exact same animations and silly looking movements over and over again. Not to mention, there is still no fluidity. The players move really fast and twitchy and in very unrealistic fashion. Many times you will see 2 to 3 players going into the exact same animation at the exact same time with their bodies at the exact same angle. It's terrible and doesn't deserve a free pass. None of this is any different than the last 8 madden releases and very little has changed.

The other thing that is nauseating is the use of the word "revolutionary". Really? What was revolutionary at all about Madden this entire generation? I can't think of one single thing. There is nothing about madden at all that makes you say, "wow! that is amazing!". Nothing at all. The only time you say that is when you encounter another horrendous bug and it's usually followed by, "I can't believe this bug made it into the game".

There were some positives like the combining of the modes. There IS potential for a mode like CCM, even though there is nothing in it that inspires or keeps you immersed. I mean, I like the twitter feeds as a little nicety, but there isn't much else. Not to mention, for online leagues, there are no controls to administer the league properly. How is it that a 25 year old amateur programmer was able to incorporate all of the admin tools Tiburon couldn't and he didn't even have documentation to assist? He also created a draft board that you could use in case you couldn't make the draft. You could reset cap penalties and move players back to teams if something went awry. Basic stuff. Yet, the millions-making madden dev team couldn't put that together in 2 years of work? They did manage to have some game breaking bugs however. The practice thing is useless since most people will just run the one that gives them the most points. Why wouldn't you? Why can't I practice whenever I want with my online franchise roster? Why can't we play scrimmage games against other members in our online franchise with our teams? How hard is it to load a roster file and enable practice games? They already did it with communities. Then of course there are the slider issues, where they don't work the same in the different modes.

Presentation and commentary is another area that still hasn't caught up to what we had 9 years ago. 9 YEARS! We did get promised that commentary would be "revolutionary" after they were working on new technology for M13. A marginal improvement at best. Player names don't even get mentioned and the commentary is wrong a lot of the time. There are no meaningful stat banners like we see in real life or fit into the context of a season. It's almost as if they have never seen an NFL broadcast. All you have to do is TRY to copy what you already see on TV.

I could go on because the list is too long and it's all been discussed in detail before. a23Steelers said it best with this line here:

It's like when a teacher praises a failing kid for getting a D+ this time.

[roadman]

Re: Madden 13 Roundtable

What you are failing to realize is that it doesn't matter what you add if it doesn't work properly or if it doesn't enhance the game. Customers are not beta testers and should not be used as guinea pigs to test out incremental releases. When software is released to the general public, they expect it to work and work well, otherwise it's not useful and there is no sense in buying it. You don't get an A for effort. If I made cars and the brakes only worked some of the time, the engine only started on Tuesdays and the paint would only maintain if you lived in the south, I'm not going to be praised because I claim to have worked hard on it. Everyone in games works hard. That's the main issue with Tiburon and it's been that way for a long time. They are delusional when it comes to their product and that stems from being the only game.

As far as that article, in all honesty, there was nothing in there that surprised me. It's obvious how the GC program really works and it's been called out on here by so many it's not worth mentioning again. The gamechangers (98% of them anyway) already like the game and think it's good. I think the infinity engine is implemented poorly, but I don't even care as much about that because it is a first crack at physics. However, what DOES bother me is how it was marketed as complete and utter bullcrap. "No two plays will ever be the same", "Canned animations are gone". Really? Play one game and you see the exact same animations and silly looking movements over and over again. Not to mention, there is still no fluidity. The players move really fast and twitchy and in very unrealistic fashion. Many times you will see 2 to 3 players going into the exact same animation at the exact same time with their bodies at the exact same angle. It's terrible and doesn't deserve a free pass. None of this is any different than the last 8 madden releases and very little has changed.

The other thing that is nauseating is the use of the word "revolutionary". Really? What was revolutionary at all about Madden this entire generation? I can't think of one single thing. There is nothing about madden at all that makes you say, "wow! that is amazing!". Nothing at all. The only time you say that is when you encounter another horrendous bug and it's usually followed by, "I can't believe this bug made it into the game".

There were some positives like the combining of the modes. There IS potential for a mode like CCM, even though there is nothing in it that inspires or keeps you immersed. I mean, I like the twitter feeds as a little nicety, but there isn't much else. Not to mention, for online leagues, there are no controls to administer the league properly. How is it that a 25 year old amateur programmer was able to incorporate all of the admin tools Tiburon couldn't and he didn't even have documentation to assist? He also created a draft board that you could use in case you couldn't make the draft. You could reset cap penalties and move players back to teams if something went awry. Basic stuff. Yet, the millions-making madden dev team couldn't put that together in 2 years of work? They did manage to have some game breaking bugs however. The practice thing is useless since most people will just run the one that gives them the most points. Why wouldn't you? Why can't I practice whenever I want with my online franchise roster? Why can't we play scrimmage games against other members in our online franchise with our teams? How hard is it to load a roster file and enable practice games? They already did it with communities. Then of course there are the slider issues, where they don't work the same in the different modes.

Presentation and commentary is another area that still hasn't caught up to what we had 9 years ago. 9 YEARS! We did get promised that commentary would be "revolutionary" after they were working on new technology for M13. A marginal improvement at best. Player names don't even get mentioned and the commentary is wrong a lot of the time. There are no meaningful stat banners like we see in real life or fit into the context of a season. It's almost as if they have never seen an NFL broadcast. All you have to do is TRY to copy what you already see on TV.

I could go on because the list is too long and it's all been discussed in detail before. a23Steelers said it best with this line here:

I gotta agree with this post a lot.

The no two plays will be the same was the wrong marketing phrase to use in the rushed first year implementation of the IE.

I do feel IE has potential if it's flushed out properly and added in with player movements. That will be interesting to check out.