User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

[davidd]

So I was reading another thread on the forums where a poster stated that in his online league users aren't allowed to switch to wideouts or DB's to catch the ball. instead forcing the computer to make or drop the catch.

This brings up an interesting quandry for me personally as I run an online league where this past year we had issues regarding what should and shouldn't be considered cheezing outside of the obvious game exploits(no-huddle offense, certain nano blitzes).

I'd like to hear some opinions on whether or not the user catch should or shouldn't be considered an exploit?

[Big FN Deal]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

Not being funny but most anything a User does in Madden can essentially be an exploit because they make the game for User control to trump as much as possible. To the specific question of User catching, yes, it's an exploit. When consider that a User has a bird's eye view of the entire field and is able to puppeteer the receiver with little, if any, regard for momentum, balance, their body position and even some of their in-game ratings, it's easy to see how it's an exploit.

In backhanded defense of Madden though, if you ain't exploiting you ain't trying, lol.

[Hova57]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

issue for me with no switch is that there are times the cpu take bad angles to make a tackle or ball smacks wr right in the head especially when they are wide open. what i find amusing tho in these leagues that the controlled player on d doesn't have to honor his play area and can effectively cover entire middle of field with out losing momentum or can change direction on drop of a dime.

[Hooe]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

It's a bit of a religious question, so-to-speak, and for minimal conflicts you should find a player group who holds the same view on the issue as you do. That is, if you want to switch onto receivers / DBs on contested passes but your league frowns upon it, find a new league.

I personally have no problem with the user attempting to have an effect on the game's on-field outcome by taking control of his players at any point during the play, be it on offense or defense. I do so regularly when playing defense as I historically have not trusted my safeties in the Madden games to attempt to make plays on deep passes. It's habit to me at this point, and thus I will never play in a no-switch league. I'm okay with this, some people aren't; I avoid conflict by playing with like-minded players.

I'll put it this way: if I didn't want to act as a player on the field, I'd play Head Coach. IMO a video game is meant to be played by the player.

[Jarodd21]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

It's a bit of a religious question, so-to-speak, and for minimal conflicts you should find a player group who holds the same view on the issue as you do. That is, if you want to switch onto receivers / DBs on contested passes but your league frowns upon it, find a new league.

I personally have no problem with the user attempting to have an effect on the game's on-field outcome by taking control of his players at any point during the play, be it on offense or defense. I do so regularly when playing defense as I historically have not trusted my safeties in the Madden games to attempt to make plays on deep passes. It's habit to me at this point, and thus I will never play in a no-switch league. I'm okay with this, some people aren't; I avoid conflict by playing with like-minded players.

I'll put it this way: if I didn't want to act as a player on the field, I'd play Head Coach. IMO a video game is meant to be played by the player.

I couldn't of said it better. I actually don't USER catch as much as I use to but I have no problem with guys who do it. Some of the guys who call it an exploit are usually the ones who aren't too good at doing it and hate seeing guys smash them doing it.

[Helios12787]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

This year, imo, the user catch issue mostly lies within the incredible power it has when combined with lead passing. There are so many occasions where certain routes are just insanely good solely due to the ability to lead pass then the ensuing user catch (streaks for example are one of the most basic usages where the combo of lead passing + user catching is just crazy good).

Lead passing to the inside and then cutting off the route will net you an easy catch 9 times out of 10 unless the person is usering the safety from the get go. Depending on the length of the pass + throw power there usually isn't enough time to swap to that safety and undercut the WR on a reliable percentage of the time.

I don't think it's cheesing by any means, but I do understand why a large portion of people take issue with it. Game is already offensively biased and the combo of lead passing + user catching skills skews it even more-so to the offensive side of the ball.

[Jarodd21]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

This year, imo, the user catch issue mostly lies within the incredible power it has when combined with lead passing. There are so many occasions where certain routes are just insanely good solely due to the ability to lead pass then the ensuing user catch (streaks for example are one of the most basic usages where the combo of lead passing + user catching is just crazy good).

Lead passing to the inside and then cutting off the route will net you an easy catch 9 times out of 10 unless the person is usering the safety from the get go. Depending on the length of the pass + throw power there usually isn't enough time to swap to that safety and undercut the WR on a reliable percentage of the time.

I don't think it's cheesing by any means, but I do understand why a large portion of people take issue with it. Game is already offensively biased and the combo of lead passing + user catching skills skews it even more-so to the offensive side of the ball.

Yeah the defense is bad on this game even if you aren't USER catching.. That's really the issue..

[koolbob1872]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

I would say it's not, because it's not very difficult to do, so anyone can do it, even casual players. It does defy realism a bit tho, because as someone said, you have a "God view" of the field that normal players wouldn't have.

[NDAlum]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

Personal preference

Want a user catch league? Play in one
Want a no-switch league? Play in one

There is no debate of sim or not sim. It is all personal opinion.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

It's a bit of a religious question, so-to-speak, and for minimal conflicts you should find a player group who holds the same view on the issue as you do. That is, if you want to switch onto receivers / DBs on contested passes but your league frowns upon it, find a new league.

I personally have no problem with the user attempting to have an effect on the game's on-field outcome by taking control of his players at any point during the play, be it on offense or defense. I do so regularly when playing defense as I historically have not trusted my safeties in the Madden games to attempt to make plays on deep passes. It's habit to me at this point, and thus I will never play in a no-switch league. I'm okay with this, some people aren't; I avoid conflict by playing with like-minded players.

I'll put it this way: if I didn't want to act as a player on the field, I'd play Head Coach. IMO a video game is meant to be played by the player.

Now you know you went a little overboard with this, lol. A no switch league, which I have never been in but understand the premise of, doesn't equate to playing Head Coach or not "playing" the game, the User stills has to assume control of the ball carrier after a catch/int. It's simply a means to try to limit intentional and unintentional User exploitation of the passing game.

I couldn't of said it better. I actually don't USER catch as much as I use to but I have no problem with guys who do it. Some of the guys who call it an exploit are usually the ones who aren't too good at doing it and hate seeing guys smash them doing it.

I have the utmost respect for your slider work, so I'm appalled to read smut like this coming from you, lol j/k. I have never taken you for some Madden game play braggart and don't even think that's how you meant this but it could come across that way, imo. I don't think there are too many people, barring some kind of impairment, that would have trouble utilizing User catching or most other basic tactics in Madden, if they desired. The vast majority, if not all, of the gamers I have run across that find User catching and ball in the air defender switching to be exploitative, just want the most realistic challenge they can have for enjoyment. They don't find enjoyment in just winning at all costs or mastering in-game tactics they believe to be unreasonably unrealistic, to counter those same tactics used against them.

[Jarodd21]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

Now you know you went a little overboard with this, lol. A no switch league, which I have never been in but understand the premise of, doesn't equate to playing Head Coach or not "playing" the game, the User stills has to assume control of the ball carrier after a catch/int. It's simply a means to try to limit intentional and unintentional User exploitation of the passing game.




I have the utmost respect for your slider work, so I'm appalled to read smut like this coming from you, lol j/k. I have never taken you for some Madden game play braggart and don't even think that's how you meant this but it could come across that way, imo. I don't think there are too many people, barring some kind of impairment, that would have trouble utilizing User catching or most other basic tactics in Madden, if they desired. The vast majority, if not all, of the gamers I have run across that find User catching and ball in the air defender switching to be exploitative, just want the most realistic challenge they can have for enjoyment. They don't find enjoyment in just winning at all costs or mastering in-game tactics they believe to be unreasonably unrealistic, to counter those same tactics used against them.

Haha! I did say some guys which I believe to be true are quick to call something an exploit because they aren't capable of doing. I definitely don't think you are one of them but I Do believe that to be the case with some of these posters around here.. I personally don't feel it's an exploit at all. There's plenty of times where you hurt your team more then help your team by switching off and trying to make a USER play on your own. Regardless I can play the game either way and I don't get bothered at all by guys who like to make USER plays instead if depending on the horrible AI sometimes. .

[splff3000]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

I don't think it's an exploit, but I definitely can see why people would want it outlawed. I have seen people do some amazing/ unbelievable/ unrealistic stuff by user switching. On the other hand, I've seen some pretty ridiculous attempts (or lack thereof) from the cpu. It's pretty much a choice between 2 extremes. You can user catch and catch just about everything under the sun or let the game do it and watch the ball hit your player in the head or watch him have no reaction at all to a ball that just whizzed by his face. You just have to decide which extreme you'd rather play at.

[Hooe]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

Now you know you went a little overboard with this, lol. A no switch league, which I have never been in but understand the premise of, doesn't equate to playing Head Coach or not "playing" the game, the User stills has to assume control of the ball carrier after a catch/int. It's simply a means to try to limit intentional and unintentional User exploitation of the passing game.

Thus the "religious argument" sentiment of my first post.

I don't see it as an exploit. Madden is a football game, within which I want to play football, in which one of the most fundamental elements is catching a pass; ergo, I want to catch passes in the game, and I do that via user catching. I absolutely am not exploiting the game by executing a basic game command.

Again, if I wanted to give up control of my players, I'd give up all of it and play a game more readily designed and optimized around that premise, be it Head Coach or a text sim. At some level, Madden was designed to allow for user control over fundamental player actions, one of them being catching the football, and my taking advantage of that intended functionality deliberately added into the system is not cheating said system.

By no means am I saying that no-switch players are wrong to play the way they do; they are well within their means to establish whatever house rules they like to govern the players they play with to maximize their enjoyment of the game. I have no problem with that. I'd even be in favor of an online community + online CCM gameplay option which actively enforces the intended no-switch rules for those who desire them. All I'm saying is that I don't agree with the house rule and thus I have no intention of following it, and as such I should probably avoid communities which play with said house rule.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

Thus the "religious argument" sentiment of my first post.

I don't see it as an exploit. Madden is a football game, within which I want to play football, in which one of the most fundamental elements is catching a pass; ergo, I want to catch passes in the game, and I do that via user catching. I absolutely am not exploiting the game by executing a basic game command.

Again, if I wanted to give up control of my players, I'd give up all of it and play a game more readily designed and optimized around that premise, be it Head Coach or a text sim. At some level, Madden was designed to allow for user control over fundamental player actions, one of them being catching the football, and my taking advantage of that intended functionality deliberately added into the system is not cheating said system.

By no means am I saying that no-switch players are wrong to play the way they do; they are well within their means to establish whatever house rules they like to govern the players they play with to maximize their enjoyment of the game. I have no problem with that. I'd even be in favor of an online community + online CCM gameplay option which actively enforces the intended no-switch rules for those who desire them. All I'm saying is that I don't agree with the house rule and thus I have no intention of following it, and as such I should probably avoid communities which play with said house rule.

My bad for using the word "exploit" in my last post when all I am trying to say is that everyone that prefers or doesn't mind playing in a no switch league/rule, doesn't necessarily think User catch is technically an exploit. Some just find no switch leagues more enjoyable because everyone has to depend more on their teammates in certain situations, which football is supposed to be all about. (The last part was probably not called for but I try to slide in a football reality check whenever I can concerning Madden)

[JerzeyReign]

Re: User Catching is considered cheezing in some leagues?

I play in a no switch league and deep down I don't like it but don't mind it if that makes sense.

With lead passing - on an out route for example - it will drive you up the wall when the ball just floats in there for a completion. Just watching a completion because of your defender just not reacting period is gut wrenching.

I think the purpose of no switching is to open up all the routes - if you could switch to a DB midplay then you can seriously shut down a bunch of plays.

I like user control. I like being the reason for the outcome of any given play. Most of the time no switch isn't an issue but once someone starts carving you up it will certainly rear its ugly head haha.

Edit: This post sounds jumbled because I just *Souljah Boy voice* Hopped up out the bed, turned OS on....