Madden NFL 25 - Sideline & Back of Endzone Interceptions Are In (UPDATED)

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by tfctillidie

I don't see it that way, this isn't "my game". I believe it's entirely wrong to expect the game to be made solely for the way I like to play it. Which is why I advocate for options. What the heck does it matter to you, me, or anyone, if some fud in Wyoming wants to turn an unrealistic option on in his offline chise? Who cares. Options allow the end result of "having the game made for me" because I can make it that way, but so can the fud in Wyoming. Everyone wins.

I think you maybe misunderstanding where LT is coming from, which is more about gamers generally being selective about realism based on their comfort level versus wanting the most realistic game possible, all around. Also the point that, especially with Madden, when the arcade aspect is always the first resort, not realism or an option, which is azz backwards in a sim game.

The priority should be realism and if possible an arcade or disabling option, not how it is now in Madden with arcade/"fun" being the default/starting point.

[tfctillidie]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I think you maybe misunderstanding where LT is coming from, which is more about gamers generally being selective about realism based on their comfort level versus wanting the most realistic game possible, all around. Also the point that, especially with Madden, when the arcade aspect is always the first resort, not realism or an option, which is azz backwards in a sim game. The priority should be realism and if possible an arcade or disabling option, not how it is now in Madden with arcade/"fun" being the default/starting point.

I get it, but it's not realistic to expect EA to narrow their market by forcing the game into a style...especially considering the state of their organization. (CEO's leaving, 10% of workforce axed, executives selling stocks, etc)


There's no perspective for the whole picture when you argue for having a customized/forced game to your own desire. It's not going to happen, so why not give me what is possible?

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by tfctillidie

I don't see it that way, this isn't "my game". I believe it's entirely wrong to expect the game to be made solely for the way I like to play it. Which is why I advocate for options. What the heck does it matter to you, me, or anyone, if some fud in Wyoming wants to turn an unrealistic option on in his offline chise? Who cares. Options allow the end result of "having the game made for me" because I can make it that way, but so can the fud in Wyoming. Everyone wins.

That's great, noble even, in principle, but it doesn't work that way in the development world. Something will suffer by having an arcade and a sim mix, because the game will have to be developed to compensate for both ways of playing. The way that it compensates for playing unrealistically WILL cross over into the realistic part of the game. There is no way around it.

You can not have a setting where the camera is zoomed into the QB and you must switch targets via the right stick to actually look at your receivers, while in the same game, have a setting where the passing game is as it is now, with no look mechanic and a God cam. It's not possible. You would need to write two separate AIs. One where the defense reacts to where you are looking, and one where they don't. It doesn't even need to be that extreme. When we had Vision Cone the defensive AI didn't function properly. You could turn it on and the defense would cheat where you were looking. Turn it off and what do they key off of? Probability? One simple change and you are playing two totally different games. How do you expect to design a game with hundreds of sim vs arcade options in it and expect it to work seamlessly when some or all are turned on or off? The answer is it won't. The proof is Madden.

The game is made to try and cater to the sim and the casual or arcade or tourney or what ever you want to call them, and the end product is the absence of all sim despite their efforts to put SOME sim into it. That kind of marriage can't sustain itself.

You will get a realistic game, when the game is built from the ground up to be realistic, arcade be damned. Options are great, but not when they are used to make the realistic, unrealistic, just so that everyone can be good at it.

You say it isn't my game, and I could not agree more. It will never be my game until they make it a sim. Until that happens I will continue to hope that they make it "my game" and will do what ever I can to make it happen. Don't much care what kind of person that makes me. Would make me a happy one. That's for sure.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by tfctillidie

I get it, but it's not realistic to expect EA to narrow their market by forcing the game into a style...especially considering the state of their organization. (CEO's leaving, 10% of workforce axed, executives selling stocks, etc) There's no perspective for the whole picture when you argue for having a customized/forced game to your own desire. It's not going to happen, so why not give me what is possible?

I do not buy the argument that people will not play a realistic game for one minute. People will buy Madden for the same reason they do now, because it is the NFL. You think that will change because it more closely resembles what it's trying to recreate? Not a chance.

FIFA has tried to be more and more realistic and the sales go up and up. Ditto NHL. The Show's sales, likewise, have increased year after year. Battlefield 3 tried to be more realistic and it was the best selling Battlefield game ever.

I see absolutely no evidence that a realistic approach to Madden would result in lowered sales. I see only evidence of the opposite.

[87Birdman]

So if the defensive camera becomes default for when you are on defense what happens to head to head on the same console??? It would have to have an option to revert since there would be someone on offense and on defense so things like that would have to have option to turn on and off because with out it you would have to eliminate head to head.

So while some things would help add realism some times there needs to be options to keep it playable for all. But I would like to see an option for defensive camera would make playing safety feel a lot more satisfying then it is now lol.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by 87Birdman

So if the defensive camera becomes default for when you are on defense what happens to head to head on the same console??? It would have to have an option to revert since there would be someone on offense and on defense so things like that would have to have option to turn on and off because with out it you would have to eliminate head to head. So while some things would help add realism some times there needs to be options to keep it playable for all. But I would like to see an option for defensive camera would make playing safety feel a lot more satisfying then it is now lol.

The answer is simple. Splitscreen. Even simpler still. Play with your friends online lol.

I enjoyed beating my brothers on the same TV as much as the next person, but this is 2013. There are so many advantages to playing on a separate Tv, from wider view, to not tipping plays and being able to view play art, that I don't know why anyone would want to play on the same set.

To each their own though.

[tfctillidie]

I want to touch on the sim vs arcade "catering", as it's long gotten out of hand and you highlight why.

EA tries to implement a feature in a simulation fashion, it breaks in certain ways causing for unrealistic results. Gamers claim they are made an arcade game and lied to them.

A broken sim feature is does not make it an arcade one, it merely is a broken sim feature.

When the ability to run at sharper angles was introduced into Madden, was that "ARCADE" or "SIM"? I think it's easy to say being able to run in more directions is more alike real life than being more limited, yes?

Yet, this new ability was the birth of the dreadful arcade like "swerve running". So again, is this directional running upgrade now an "ARCADE" feature because it didn't hit the mark? Or is it an attempt at being more of a simulation of real life...but is simply broken?




As for the rest of the debate I don't think it's unrealistic that on next gen, multiple AI sets are impossible to have which would address your example.

I think the current gen hardware limits the AI more than people think, when I see other development studios discuss the PS4 capability and how the PS3 is always running 100% on their current games.

Time will tell I guess.

[tfctillidie]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I do not buy the argument that people will not play a realistic game for one minute. People will buy Madden for the same reason they do now, because it is the NFL. You think that will change because it more closely resembles what it's trying to recreate? Not a chance. FIFA has tried to be more and more realistic and the sales go up and up. Ditto NHL. The Show's sales, likewise, have increased year after year. Battlefield 3 tried to be more realistic and it was the best selling Battlefield game ever. I see absolutely no evidence that a realistic approach to Madden would result in lowered sales. I see only evidence of the opposite.

FIFA lost it's competitor for quite some time.
The Show's competition is literally slapping on 12 on top off 11, now 13 on top of 12.
NHL has none.

You can't just pass judgement stating "it's because they are trying to be more sim" as the explanation behind it all.