Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

[Big FN Deal]

I guess this will be my official crusade until something is done about it in Madden or another licensed game comes along but this must be addressed. JPDavis recently posted an 100th episode video for the EAGC radio show and in one part they were discussing Madden "strategy". Anyway just looking at the preplay adjustment "popups" and them essentially drawing new plays at the LOS diminishes immersion, making Madden seem more like a real time play editor than playing football.

I don't want this to be some wishlist thread, just a place for posting SIMPLE, hopefully patchable elements, to deal with this and a discussion about preplay adjustments in general.

My suggestion is a blanket OPTION to disable advanced preplay adjustments all together, available to Commissioners and community creators. What I mean by "advanced" is anything outside of pass block shifting for the offense and DL/LB shifting, as well as press/backoff DBs for the defense. Everything else would require an audible to a new play.

Am I alone in this opinion that preplay adjustments, ie drawing new plays at the LOS, being an issue, what do you think?

[BezO]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

I'd prefer tiered defensive play calling over limiting the user. Tiered play calling would allow us to put schemes together in the huddle instead of at the line.

Being limited to defensive "plays", I can understand why folks do what they do at the LOS. It's ugly to watch though.

[californ14]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

I do not like the pre-play micromanagement system, for the most part....I like the general ability to micro-manage and want it to remain; what I do not like is the apparent need to micro manage a good bit of the assignments on defense before each snap.

I believe this much micro management does not represent the general pre-play defensive interactions realistically and it is overly time consuming; a hurry-up offense in Madden has a greater advantage than would be expected in the NFL because of the multitude of micromanagement changes required for many play...

My solution is to allow people to make adjustments in practice mode, using only the abilities afforded in the adjustments menus and save those plays to a teams playbook to be used in game; and possibly even shared.

[ZFarls]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

I'm the coach when I play, I should be able to hot route and make adjustments especially on defense. I play madden to "play" not to watch it happen. Please don't take away my control.

I want to be Peyton Manning, let me be Peyton.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

I'd prefer tiered defensive play calling over limiting the user. Tiered play calling would allow us to put schemes together in the huddle instead of at the line.

Being limited to defensive "plays", I can understand why folks do what they do at the LOS. It's ugly to watch though.

Yeah but didn't Ian state something about how tiered playcalling would require a complete rewrite? Also, how does that address the the offense drawing up new plays at the LOS using hot routes?

If both offense and defense can only make basic adjustments, doesn't that level the playing field so defense doesn't need to do those things?

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

I'm the coach when I play, I should be able to hot route and make adjustments especially on defense. I play madden to "play" not to watch it happen. Please don't take away my control.

I want to be Peyton Manning, let me be Peyton.

To be clear, what I want is an OPTION, so I am not suggesting anything be taken away from anybody. I think it is important that especially as an EAGC you understand that, so there is no resistance to the option.

Let me take some deep breaths on the Peyton Manning comment so I don't overreact, lol. Manning is NOT drawing up new plays, ie ad libbing at the LOS, like in Madden and the User shouldn't be able to be "Peyton Manning" with every QB anyway. I swear I want to thumb wrestle people when they try to justify unrealistic stuff like this just because it gives them control, ie success, reasonable realism be damned.

That said, as an EAGC, could you at least get behind and support the OPTION for Commishes and community creators to be able to disable them for their Madden "fish bowl"?

[BezO]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

I'm the coach when I play, I should be able to hot route and make adjustments especially on defense. I play madden to "play" not to watch it happen. Please don't take away my control.

I want to be Peyton Manning, let me be Peyton.

Madden doesn't represent what Manning does very well. He's not drawing new plays at the line. He's calling 2 plays in the huddle and choosing 1 at the line. He's changing a route here & there. He's audibling conventionally. He's changing the direction of run plays. He's adjusting the blocking. He's making dummy calls. He's not giving 3-5 WRs new assignments on the fly.

Edit: Damn! Could've left that to Big.

Yeah but didn't Ian state something about how tiered playcalling would require a complete rewrite? Also, how does that address the the offense drawing up new plays at the LOS using hot routes?

Yup! Maybe not practical until next gen, but it's the most realistic way.

It wouldn't stop players from drawing offensive plays at the LOS, but it would make it less effective since the defense could scheme and audible with more freedom. And we'd need techniques like shading, pressing, playing off, bailing, blitzing, stunts, etc to work more realistically.

I also believe the offensive play calling system needs an overhaul. The offensive system doesn't have the freedom it needs either. Route combinations need to be duplicated in all possible formations. Run plays need to be duplicated the same way. Personnel & formations need to be separated in a way that allows any personnel set to line up in any formation and run any play. The old Colts always come to mind when I talk about this, the way they ran so few plays from so many formations.

I think this would eliminate the need to create at the LOS.

If both offense and defense can only make basic adjustments, doesn't that level the playing field so defense doesn't need to do those things?

I think we just want to level the field with different methods. I never like limiting the user because anything is possible. I remember folks hating the fact that you could put players in different positions. Then the Patriots do just that, playing Brown at DB as well as creating the "hybrid defender".

I'm OK with users doing whatever they want as long as it doesn't give them an unfair advantage over folks doing it conventionally.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

I think we just want to level the field with different methods. I never like limiting the user because anything is possible. I remember folks hating the fact that you could put players in different positions. Then the Patriots do just that, playing Brown at DB as well as creating the "hybrid defender".

I'm OK with users doing whatever they want as long as it doesn't give them an unfair advantage over folks doing it conventionally.

I think this is where misunderstanding comes in because I don't want to unrealistically limit what Users can do. For example, like you stated, real QBs are not drawing up new plays at the LOS, nor are coaches or defensive captains micromanaging every defender. I want a general focus placed on game planning and pregame preparation, not the real time strategy, on the fly, game that Madden currently is. I'm all for advanced preplay adjustments and micromanagement off the field, ie practice, at half time, even some quick changes on the sideline preplay but not at the LOS.

Also, I want more in-depth fixes to the core problems with this but ITT I was trying to focus on simple elements, until that can happen.

[BannedNinja]

I would prefer a system where I call a play on D, then have a simple read and react audible system. If I'm playing and I call a zone coverage I would rather be given just simple options to change to a man or blitz package. Maybe we could gameplan week to week on what packages we want to have available. Depending on the team we play.

Basically like a check system. More true to life

Sent from my SCH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[Hova57]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

Big, i get what your saying, but to do what nfl qbs is based on coverage, identifying mike. Routes are changed based on that, i don't think that can be replicated on madden. Wr change their routes based on their man playing off or close or where blitzing corner or safety is coming from.

with that said i would like to see the smoke pattern in hot routes because that is a commonly used hot route when a blitz is coming.

[californ14]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

I am also all for a game plan system adjustment....In addition to allowing users to alter plays in practice with pre-snap adjustments and saving them in their game plan, what I would like is the current game plans to be designated "play books" and from there EA could make generic "game plans" for each team which represent a smaller collection of the basic plays each team has a tendency to call in a game....

Then I would like to see the ability to make additional game plans as a team would in preparation for the opponent they are about to go up against, and the ability to change game plans at half time...

If we have the ability to share game plans between users I also believe this would allow for the consumer base to police cheese plays to a degree by sharing game plans and custom adjusted plays that are most effective at countering the flavor of the month offensive plays...

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

Big, i get what your saying, but to do what nfl qbs is based on coverage, identifying mike. Routes are changed based on that, i don't think that can be replicated on madden. Wr change their routes based on their man playing off or close or where blitzing corner or safety is coming from.

with that said i would like to see the smoke pattern in hot routes because that is a commonly used hot route when a blitz is coming.

That's kind of my general point, that if Tiburon can't figure out how to represent something in a reasonably complete manner, then don't do it half arse, just don't do it period until it can be done reasonably well. It's the old critique about how they add something unrealistic to combat something unrealistic, until that given element is an unrealistic mess. That's where Madden has come to with regard to preplay adjustments and something needs to be done about it.

EAGC Casey Mosier had a suggestion on TSO, that I liked, about how "hot routing" should be built into the AI/AWR of receivers, not controlled by the User QB. I think that premise is something every reasonable person could get behind for advanced preplay adjustments as a whole, leave it to the player ratings.

The "playing" aspect that ZFarls alluded to comes from the User QB and WR being on the same page on offense and for the User defender to have to trust their teammates to do their job or try to compensate through game planning, ie plays that give a particular defender(s) help, User controlling that defender or trying to help them with another User controlled defender.

There is way more Madden could do to emphasize the team and preparation elements of NFL football, instead of the focus on expanding unrealistic preplay adjustments.

[BezO]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

I think this is where misunderstanding comes in because I don't want to unrealistically limit what Users can do. For example, like you stated, real QBs are not drawing up new plays at the LOS, nor are coaches or defensive captains micromanaging every defender. I want a general focus placed on game planning and pregame preparation, not the real time strategy, on the fly, game that Madden currently is. I'm all for advanced preplay adjustments and micromanagement off the field, ie practice, at half time, even some quick changes on the sideline preplay but not at the LOS.

I got you. I'm down for pre-game / half time prep. But there are players that adlib. I know you're familiar Mr. Lavar Arrington. He might as well not been a part of the huddle at times.

Some players are better at it than others. Ed Reed comes to mind. He'll abandon an assignment in a minute. Difference is he's normally right about his hunch. Polamalu used to be good at that as well, not so much any more.

So I want the adlib aspect open to users. Not so much to create new plays at the LOS, but to gamble on a hunch.

This doesn't necessarily apply to offense, but who knows? No one knew the Pats would be lining WRs up at DB, turning OLBs into DEs & vice versa. For all we know a team may give a QB ridiculous amounts of freedom this season to do just what we currently think is unrealistic.

Even if it remains unrealistic, which it likely will, I'm OK with it assuming it wouldn't give offenses the advantage it currently gives. And it wouldn't be necessary if the play calling systems were more realistic. Give gamers the tools in the huddle and they won't abuse the tools at the LOS.

Also, I want more in-depth fixes to the core problems with this but ITT I was trying to focus on simple elements, until that can happen.

I think this is where I differ from most. I don't want them spending a single second on work-arounds. Either fix it or fix it.

BUT, if I'm going to be more practical, limit the user to what a team would typically do. DB presses, allow for typical route adjustments like streaks, fades, etc. DB plays off, allow for hitches, slants, etc.

[dghustla]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

I would venture to say that unless anyone in this thread has played with Peyton Manning on the field then we don't know what he's doing or not doing at the line of scrimmage. Yes it's been said/reported he calls 2-3 plays in the huddle. But you don't know if he's changing multi routes, calling different plays, calling dummy plays, etc. I actually would venture to say that Peyton Manning is not limited in his scope of control at the LOS which is why he is one of the best in the biz.

I see QBs all the time look to the WRs on their left and make hand signals then look to the WRs on their right and make hand signals.

None the less to each his own. If you prefer to play with Hot Routes off. I dont see why if EA determines it do able to make it an option.

[BezO]

Re: Reining In PrePlay Adjustments

EAGC Casey Mosier had a suggestion on TSO, that I liked, about how "hot routing" should be built into the AI/AWR of receivers, not controlled by the User QB. I think that premise is something every reasonable person could get behind for advanced preplay adjustments as a whole, leave it to the player ratings.

The problem is that every team does things differently. Even the same team will use different methods.

Sometimes it is the QB. He might give the WR a nod. Them being on the same page is simply knowing what that nod means in that situation.

Sometimes it's a pre-game adjustment, but even then, it's not absolute. The same adjustment against a technique will get you set up. There's still usually some communication.

Sometimes it's a "check with me" and 1 of 2 plays is called/confirmed at the LOS.

I think leaving it to the AI could be crippling.

I like pre-game prep more for the automation / short cut it could provide, but I still think it should be triggered by the user.

There is way more Madden could do to emphasize the team and preparation elements of NFL football, instead of the focus on expanding unrealistic preplay adjustments.

Agreed!

I don't think the LOS adjustments need to be expanded, but I'm OK with them being left alone as a method to make adjustments.

Add to that the ability to call 2 plays in the huddle & select 1 at the line.

Add pre-game prep.

Allow playbooks to be built & situational adjustments to be added to them. For example, instead of having to hot route a smoke against off coverage, have situational short cut triggers.

But most importantly, fix the playbooks so they're not so limiting. I shouldn't have to search for specific formations to run specific plays, offense or defense. IMO, this is the biggest issue. Some gamers will always find a way to abuse something. Many others use hot routes to break the chains off the play calling mechanics. The plays being created should be in the playbook.

I had notes with so many suggestions back when I thought they would do some good.