Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

[juggalotusx]

I have working on creating updated rosters for madden this year and just ran into a huge flaw in the speed ratings of players.
After going threw and finding 40 times of about 15 players, I saw that only about 2 were close to being correct.
They have players that ran a 430 slower than players that ran a 456, How in the heck does this work.
I understand players get slower with age but this was not the case this was players only a couple years into the leauge.
Example Lions Mike thomas ran a 430 40 time his speed in madden 93 with acc 94
Brandon tate of the bengals ran a 456 40 time his speed a 95 with acc 93
How does this work, who creates the ratings and where does he get his info or does he just guess? Both players in the leauge same amount of years 3.
I saw this with multiple players and that was just WRs.

I also Cant stand how they bring up a persons route running just to bring up the ovrall.
Shady mcCoy a 83 Route runner, I think not....

[shttymcgee]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

I have working on creating updated rosters for madden this year and just ran into a huge flaw in the speed ratings of players.
After going threw and finding 40 times of about 15 players, I saw that only about 2 were close to being correct.
They have players that ran a 430 slower than players that ran a 456, How in the heck does this work.
I understand players get slower with age but this was not the case this was players only a couple years into the leauge.
Example Lions Mike thomas ran a 430 40 time his speed in madden 93 with acc 94
Brandon tate of the bengals ran a 456 40 time his speed a 95 with acc 93
How does this work, who creates the ratings and where does he get his info or does he just guess? Both players in the leauge same amount of years 3.
I saw this with multiple players and that was just WRs.

I also Cant stand how they bring up a persons route running just to bring up the ovrall.
Shady mcCoy a 83 Route runner, I think not....

The 40 is a measure of acceration, not speed.
Overall rating doesn't matter.

[BleedGreen710]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

The 40 is a measure of acceration, not speed.
Overall rating doesn't matter.

quoted for truth

[juggalotusx]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

The 40 is a measure of acceration, not speed.
Overall rating doesn't matter.

ok so thomas should still have a better acc than tate not just a 1 point differance, right?
Also if thats the case everyones speed should be lower than there acc cause when you get to full speed you slow down from getting tired"stamina" right.
So then you will never go faster then when you first start running at full acc.

[juggalotusx]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

Think i might have found out why players dont do so good when simming, its because alot of good players on madden only have a consistancy of 1 set on there traits screen,UGH...

[TomSNC]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

Think i might have found out why players dont do so good when simming, its because alot of good players on madden only have a consistancy of 1 set on there traits screen,UGH...

Lol yea I noticed this as well, I can't remember any off the top of my head but I found the amount of dudes with 1 consistency and like 3 confidence unusual. Some of the consistency ones were blatantly asinine, I just wish I remember whom I noticed first that made me do a double take

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

I have working on creating updated rosters for madden this year and just ran into a huge flaw in the speed ratings of players.
After going threw and finding 40 times of about 15 players, I saw that only about 2 were close to being correct.
They have players that ran a 430 slower than players that ran a 456, How in the heck does this work.
I understand players get slower with age but this was not the case this was players only a couple years into the leauge.
Example Lions Mike thomas ran a 430 40 time his speed in madden 93 with acc 94
Brandon tate of the bengals ran a 456 40 time his speed a 95 with acc 93
How does this work, who creates the ratings and where does he get his info or does he just guess? Both players in the leauge same amount of years 3.
I saw this with multiple players and that was just WRs.

I also Cant stand how they bring up a persons route running just to bring up the ovrall.
Shady mcCoy a 83 Route runner, I think not....

Thomas ran a 4.30 yes, but Tate didn't run at the combine as he was coming off of a knee injury. He didn't run at his pro day in 2009 either. The best verifiable time NFLDS reported was a 4.52.

[Sausage]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

Thomas ran a 4.30 yes, but Tate didn't run at the combine as he was coming off of a knee injury. He didn't run at his pro day in 2009 either. The best verifiable time NFLDS reported was a 4.52.

With Madden Share we can finally get to play with your ratings that actually are determined by data.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

The 40 is a measure of acceration, not speed.
Overall rating doesn't matter.

This is false. According to the data I have, most NFL players reach their peak velocity between the 20 and 40 yard mark. If you analyze the split times and create a cubic function based upon them, you can use derivatives to deduce the rate of acceleration and velocity at any instantaneous point. The average NFL player begins to stop accelerating (maximum velocity reached) at the 30 yard mark. Chris Johnson actually reached his peak velocity at 30.5 yard mark and began to slow down according to the split data. So as you can see although the acceleration for an NFL prospect is maxed out, there is ample data to suggest the peak velocity of a player, considering we know where the peak is.

[shttymcgee]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

This is false. According to the data I have, most NFL players reach their peak velocity between the 20 and 40 yard mark. If you analyze the split times and create a cubic function based upon them, you can use derivatives to deduce the rate of acceleration and velocity at any instantaneous point. The average NFL player begins to stop accelerating (maximum velocity reached) at the 30 yard mark. Chris Johnson actually reached his peak velocity at 30.5 yard mark and began to slow down according to the split data. So as you can see although the acceleration for an NFL prospect is maxed out, there is ample data to suggest the peak velocity of a player, considering we know where the peak is.

But the 40 starts from a stand-still. You have to accelerate to move, no? You want to measure the flying split between 25-35 to display speed, fine.

Starting techniques make a big difference in 40 times.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

But the 40 starts from a stand-still. You have to accelerate to move, no? You want to measure the flying split between 25-35 to display speed, fine.

Starting techniques make a big difference in 40 times.

The 40 does start from a stand still. In fact, the point (0,0) is the initial point in the splits. Using kinematics, you can compute the cubic function of the route that the player ran using their split times. From that cubic function, you can see when their peak velocity and acceleration was reached during the course of the 40 yards as well as determine what their peak velocity and acceleration was. Compare that to the rest of the population and you have some accurate Madden SPD and ACC ratings.

Here is Chris Johnson's curve to give you an example.

[shttymcgee]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

The 40 does start from a stand still. In fact, the point (0,0) is the initial point in the splits. Using kinematics, you can compute the cubic function of the route that the player ran using their split times. From that cubic function, you can see when their peak velocity and acceleration was reached during the course of the 40 yards as well as determine what their peak velocity and acceleration was. Compare that to the rest of the population and you have some accurate Madden SPD and ACC ratings.

Here is Chris Johnson's curve to give you an example.

I can't see your graphs. edit: now I can

Anyway, the 40 is a better measure of acceleration than it is a measurement of speed. This was the general consensus 20 years when I was an exercise phys. undergrad, and it still is the consensus now being a post-grad in the field of exercise.




edit: looks like your graph needs to be bigger. It shows he is decelerating slightly after 4.0 sec, but his velocity remains constant up to about 4 1/4 sec?!

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

I can't see your graphs. edit: now I can

Anyway, the 40 is a better measure of acceleration than it is a measurement of speed. This was the general consensus 20 years when I was an exercise phys. undergrad, and it still is the consensus now being a post-grad in the field of exercise.



Don't forget that combine 40's are not all that accurate, since the NFL (for whatever reason) still does not use any automated clock-starting device.

edit: looks like your graph needs to be bigger. It shows he is decelerating slightly after 4.0 sec, but his velocity remains constant up to about 4 1/4 sec?!

If the SPD rating is defined as the maximum velocity, and the maximum velocity can be calculated using this method, then how does it not work? I consulted with individuals from Texas A&M University and The University of Minnesota in the fields of kinematics and kinesiology before deriving at a concise way of measuring both.

The NFL does still use a hand-start for the 40, but they use two electronic and one hand timer to stop the run. All of the data is given to NFL teams a full week after the combine's completion. Since there is not any other present way to gather this data, we are forced to sacrifice some perfections in lieu of getting a better idea of how players move. The alternative, however, would be by sitting in a room and watching youtube videos on every single player with no quantifiable data and an immense use of speculation.

The site will only allow me to post an image up to 500kb in size, so it is limited. The velocity peaks at 31yds and begins to decline at this point. You can also refer to the acceleration line to see when it crosses the x-axis. This would suggest that the player stops accelerating at this point and begins to slow down. The cycle of acceleration is thus complete, as is the extremum of the velocity curve. From each you can determine the maximum acceleration during the course of the run as well as the maximum velocity achieved.

[shttymcgee]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

Could you write out the exact process you used to reach the data plotted in the graph?

Certainly, getting a maximum velocity would allow you to gauge the runner's speed, but just using the time it took to cover the 40 does not give you the top speed.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

Could you write out the exact process you used to reach the data plotted in the graph?

Certainly, getting a maximum velocity would allow you to gauge the runner's speed, but just using the time it took to cover the 40 does not give you the top speed.

Oh man, you NEVER use the 40 time as a pure time to measure the speed of a player because player accelerate at different rates and use different velocities.

All you need to do is use the splits for each player's 40 time, plot a cubic function, and then differentiate twice. It's simple calculus.