EA should remove schemes from Madden

[btvs]

Here is an example why.

Eagles, Chip Kelly

His scheme is vertical offense and his his QB scheme is mobile QB.

Nick Foles is a 87 but once you start franchise mode he drops to a 77. Vick goes from a 83 to 85 and is the starter. Because the scheme is set on mobile QB. Nothing realistic about this. So if you are not the Eagles in a franchise mode, Foles is nothing more than a backup that will waste his career away on the bench.

Cardinals, Bruce Arians

Cards RB shceme is set on power run. So outstanding rookie Andre Ellington who is teams best RB, Who is a speed back is a 80 overall but start franchise mode he drops to a 67 and is released from the team in preseason. He can't even make the roster.

There is so much more of this around the league. Its so unrealistic, Scheme was an interesting idea but its broken and hopefully its removed from the game.

[roll2tide]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

Personally, I would prefer that they fix it and have teams/coachs' adjust to fit personnel and, if necessary, convert to their natural/desired scheme via FA/Trades/Draft.

Given EA's limited abilities, however, combined with their track record for new features.....I fully expect it to be removed for next year.

[TheManInBlack38]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

Agreed, the idea of schemes is great because not all teams value players the same way so a single overall doesn't always work, but the way it is now does not give the end result it should. It is not an easy real world thing to implement especially in this game where the CPU already has enough problems with logic decisions. Either tweak it in some way or just eliminate it all together. At least with it out it would get rid of any confusion over the change in player ratings for users.

[macbranson]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

I think it should be eliminated. It seems that schemes for the most part are built around the players, not the other way around. The Eagles have mobile QB as their scheme because they have Mike Vick. It's not like they're only going to draft and sign mobile QBs. If they get a good QB who's not particularly mobile, which they did, they're no longer gonna be a "mobile QB " team. I think schemes should be more general, like Spread offense or Run Heavy or 3-4 defense or hybrid defense. Making it so specific creates problems in the depth chart with good players becoming backups and it's really bad through out every team. The only place where schemes really has an effect is in the 3-4 defense personnel. Otherwise, it's really just not necessary and too difficult to implement properly.

[jf28]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

This kind of thinking is why over 50% of new features since Madden 2004 have been removed (seriously, look them up and do the math). The idea that a poorly implemented idea should be removed because it's poorly implemented is extremely flawed; it was put in the game for a reason. Different guys are, in fact, better in different schemes, and need to be treated properly. Before the introduction of schemes, there was really no difference between how a guy played in a 3-4 and a 4-3, while there is really a huge difference.

They need to be fixed, not removed.

[josefrees]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

Yeah schemes is an alright idea but like all madden postPS2 is junk and half done. Its makes sense--it just isn't done well. Most of it IMO is totally UI

[macbranson]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

The problem with schemes is that they're different for offense and defense. On offense, coaches make adjust their scheme according to their personnel. On defense, coaches adjusts the personnel to fit the scheme. This creates problems like the Mike Vick/ Nick Foles dilemma. It's not like the coach is only going to play mobile QBs no matter where he goes. But a coach that runs a 3-4 is going to run. 3-4 wherever he goes. So in order to fix the problem, EA should eliminate the scheme thing. I think it was a good concept, but it's too difficult to implement correctly.

Coaches should have an offensive philosophy and a defensive scheme. On offense, there should be Run Heavy, Pass Heavy and Balanced. On defense, you should have 3-4, 4-3, Hybrid, Cover 2 and Leo 4-3 (or whatever you wanna call Pete Carroll's defense). Then you should have a modifier; Aggressive or Conservative . This would apply to offense or defense.

Player attributes shouldn't be modified according to their philosophy or scheme. They should just have separate depth charts for the different defensive schemes. So player's actual overall rating would change according to their scheme. This way, there wouldn't be the problem with guys having a high rating in the scheme and getting moved up the depth chart above someone who is actually a higher rated player. The 4-3 defense would have the regular depth chart we're used to seeing. The 3-4 would have a Nose Tackle instead of DT and a position called 3-4 defensive end. It would also have linebackers named according to a 3-4 defense; Jack, Mike, Will and Sam. A hybrid defense would have the same designations for linebackers as a 3-4 and it would have a Defensive Tackle position in addition to the Nosetackle position. A Cover 2 would be the same as a 4-3, but would have a Cover 2 Cornerback position instead of regular cornerback. Players actual overall ratings would change according to their position in the scheme. For instance, a corner who has low press and tackling attributes would see his overall ratings drop as a Cover 2 Cornerback. I think this would be a good way to resolve the "scheme dilemma".

[JulioTheBeast]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

Here is an example why.

Eagles, Chip Kelly

His scheme is vertical offense and his his QB scheme is mobile QB.

Nick Foles is a 87 but once you start franchise mode he drops to a 77. Vick goes from a 83 to 85 and is the starter. Because the scheme is set on mobile QB. Nothing realistic about this. So if you are not the Eagles in a franchise mode, Foles is nothing more than a backup that will waste his career away on the bench.

Cardinals, Bruce Arians

Cards RB shceme is set on power run. So outstanding rookie Andre Ellington who is teams best RB, Who is a speed back is a 80 overall but start franchise mode he drops to a 67 and is released from the team in preseason. He can't even make the roster.

There is so much more of this around the league. Its so unrealistic, Scheme was an interesting idea but its broken and hopefully its removed from the game.

Schemes are so the CPU gets players that fit their team, instead of randoms like in the past when a "3-4" team with a "3-4" playbook would not have DL or LBs that fit their scheme.

Vick was the starter when the game came out.

Ellington was a no name.

The schemes don't need to be removed, they just need to be updated with the rosters.

And they need functional WR 2/HB 2/DT 2/MLB 2/CB 2 ratings.

All players are rated as whatever the "1" slot is.

[btvs]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

I just think EA is best off having schemes set for Offense and Defense. Just to identify if the team is a 4-3, 3-4, etc...or WCO or Power run. Having scheme for each position is flawed and I can't see EA being able to fix it.

Not to mention its takes away from Donny Moore's ratings which EA loves to make such a big deal about.

[I_Tyler_Durden_I]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

The idea of schemes is great, because it makes teams look for certain players to fit the scheme. Please don't make it that easy for EA to just drop another feature they were just not able to get it right. There were way to many over the last years. This is fore sure one of the biggest reasons, why this series is stagnating. Putting resources in the development of a new feature and then throw it away just two years later like a boot, that never really fitted.
It seems like they have a vision and if it does not work like intended, they give up and move on. EA has to learn how to develop a vision and at the time they realize that there are some problems with the first try, don't drop it. Think about a way to adjust it.
They should never give up the idea of schemes but they have to adjust some things. In my opinion the biggest problem is, that it is way to static. For sure there are coaches in the NFL who will not adjust there scheme to the players they have but they are the minority, because coaches have to win and win fast.
I just wouldn't change the OVR, I would remove it at all. Value players by a bunch of ratings and weight them differently, according to the scheme and use the best player on the roster. The Eagles example is great. Foles is the better passer but Vick is more mobile, but in every scheme, the first thing a QB has to do is throw the ball, so weight these skills much higher then the running skills. In addition they have to value age and other attributes. Setting up the roster isn't an easy task, but it can be done.

[KingV2k3]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

Put me in the "love the idea, not so much the execution" camp...

Bills are a 4-3 and the D scheme options are for a 3-4...only one DT / 2 MLBs, etc...

Plus, the "styles" were never updated in actual play...

Mario Williams (for instance) is listed as a 4-3 Run Stopper, but I find his ratings go up in game when you set him to 3-4 Run Stopper, like years previous...

Same thing for the OL...they still have "phantom" spread tendencies left over from the Gailey era...

It's just lazy..

And:

I HATE the fact that if you change from a 3-4 to a 4-3 (or vice versa) the boxes for your D will ALWAYS remain with the default set up...

I'd prefer they fix them rather then remove them...but if they just keep piling on to the original set up with "cosmetic" changes that aren't really accurate...

Then yes, please do away with it...

[puckzone25]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

Frankly the individual player scheme is the worst part of it. They could have like general offensive and defensive schemes and match players based on basic characteristics, like if your teams d line needs a pass rusher it could be like a team needs page including a DE with pass rushing ability, similar to NCAA how when you are recruiting it tells you your position grade and team needs, but with just a little more detail.

the individual player scheme really screws up the depth chart.

[Fixxer]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

So how do guys set up schemes do you just get the highest overall rating or set it according to what the player is or set it to what the team is running at the beginning of cfm? I have the Seahawks and Pete Carroll runs a balance offense Russell Wilson is a mobile qb but is a west coast scheme

[Fistandilius]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

Frankly the individual player scheme is the worst part of it. They could have like general offensive and defensive schemes and match players based on basic characteristics, like if your teams d line needs a pass rusher it could be like a team needs page including a DE with pass rushing ability, similar to NCAA how when you are recruiting it tells you your position grade and team needs, but with just a little more detail.

the individual player scheme really screws up the depth chart.

I have to agree. I think schemes are ok, but the whole "3-4 versatile" "3-4 pass rusher" "prototype", etc. etc. thing is bs.

I think it should go by player skill period. I mean can anyone confirm that if you have a player that's labelled as a 3-4 pass rusher, but you develop the skills necessary for say a.. run stopper or a cover 2, will his overall adjust accordingly or does he get stuck with lower ratings because he's labeled as a pass rusher?

[RonMexico1992]

Re: EA should remove schemes from Madden

It is STUPID should be removed because the CPU isnt smart enough to handle it. Philly traded Nick Foles at 87 ovr because of his SCHEME for 7th round pick, are you kidding me? the CCM is almost ruined because of teams making horrible decisions,