Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

[kicker]

IMO you can't review games based on what sliders may or may not do. Not everybody wants to sit there for hours fiddling with sliders trying to figure out what works - and IMO they shouldn't be expected to.

Besides, sliders should be for tweaking game play. IMO gamers shouldn't be counting on sliders to fix game play.

You should be getting at least decent game play right out of the box.

Hmmm..took me exactly 1 minute to download and load sliders off of 2kshare that makes this game play a great brand of Baseball.

2k games ALWAYS need slider adjustments, why this isn't factored into a review is beyond me.

[Pared]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

I don't really get it. I'm saying to people it isn't broken, and that if sliders can make the game more to your preference - that should be factored in.
We are talking about videogame baseball, and your idea of what bliss is like will differ than mine.
I feel like the point of the review was to dock major points for the game not simulating real life baseball extremely closely - right out of the box.
I think your argument against mine is that the game is fundamentally 'broken' in certain aspects - is that right? And that sliders can band-aid those aspects and that the consumer shouldn't be expected to have to fix those issues himself..at least I think that's where you're going.
I'm just saying this is all very subjective and I'm not convinced that the game has to be extremely sim right out of the box to get a good score.
I think it's a great 'fusion' of sim, especially with my current sliders and I'm very happy w/ how it's playing now. I could list stats like my team BA or pitch count and things like this. I'll have lower walks (taken and given) and pitch counts - but everything else is very believable and my games only take 40-45 minutes.

Yes, that's exactly my point. Even so, compare it to other games released in the past. Graphics and presentation withstanding, the core depiction of baseball warrants the comments in the review.

Every one is different as far as how they want to play with sliders. Not everyone is going to agree no mater what sliders the development puts as default.

That's my point. Not sure if you were agreeing with me or what.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

Hmmm..took me exactly 1 minute to download and load sliders off of 2kshare that makes this game play a great brand of Baseball.

2k games ALWAYS need slider adjustments, why this isn't factored into a review is beyond me.

I just don't see it as the reviews responsibility to make the game playable, it's the developers. What about last year when 2K share was unavailable? How much time should he spend tweaking until he actually reviewed the game? Slider threads are already started and they will continue to be tweaked for weeks and/or months to come.

I wouldn't expect Consumer Reports or JD Power to take a brand new car and then tweak parts of the engine, etc. before the review the car...they review what they get from the manufacturer.

Sliders are meant to tweak the game so that people can tweak the game based on their preferences and abilities not to overhaul the way the game plays...if this becomes the case, it is the fault of the developer and no one else.

[BlyGilmore]

Hmmm..took me exactly 1 minute to download and load sliders off of 2kshare that makes this game play a great brand of Baseball.

2k games ALWAYS need slider adjustments, why this isn't factored into a review is beyond me.

Point blank, gamers should not need to put the extra time and effort into going out and finding sliders, or playing with sliders themselves, to get a passable game of baseball.

I stand by my statement - sliders are for tweaking and perfecting. They are not for fixing flaws the developers should have fixed on their own.

I cannot think of another product people can spend their hard earned dollars on where people make excuses for it being broken just - because you have the option of fixing it yourself.

Would you tell somebody who opened up a brand new Dell to crack open the case, grab a their soldering iron (yeah i spelled that wrong sliz) and fix it themselves?

"Come on! That loose chip isn't Dell's fault! Just spend the next hour putting it back in place and you'll be fine! Crybaby!"

[Muskrat]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

I am not a sim fanatic, just a baseball fan...and I am having fun with the game on the Pro setting "stock" sliders. As I get better and destroy the computer, I will start moving the sliders until I am ready to move up to the next difficulty level.

From a "casual baseball gamer" perspective, the only glaring issue is the 1b leaving the bag...which I have eliminated by letting the meter move into the red when throwing to first..not a singe problem unless the meter goes full red..

Personally, I find the menus more cumbersome and confusing than any of the gameplay.

I see where the "sim crowd" is coming from...but to the best of my recollection with regards to most baseball games, they are set out of the box for casual gamers and provide the sliders for tweaking by the hardcore fans. To me, this is what 2k9 does...

[Muskrat]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

...and from a 'casual' standpoint, I like that the cpu doesn't let a strike arbitrarily go by (ie: 1st pitch strikes). I've never understood why, when most pitchers throw strikes on the first pitch, more batters don't exploit this. If I want a strikeout, I have to really work for it (9 games in) by throwing some balls to set up strikes, I have 25 K's now in 9 games (yeah, 3K's per game is low...I'm still learning).

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

...and from a 'casual' standpoint, I like that the cpu doesn't let a strike arbitrarily go by (ie: 1st pitch strikes). I've never understood why, when most pitchers throw strikes on the first pitch, more batters don't exploit this. If I want a strikeout, I have to really work for it (9 games in) by throwing some balls to set up strikes, I have 25 K's now in 9 games (yeah, 3K's per game is low...I'm still learning).

Just because a pitch is a strike doesn't neceassarily mean it's a good pitch to hit. Most pitchers don't just toss fastballs down the middle on their first pitch and then batters just take that pitch. They attack the edges of the zone because they know hitters are looking for a pitch they can drive, which is usually something over the heart or middle of the plate.

There are hitters who will take 99% of the time regardless of the pitch and location and there are some that will swing at almost anything, but most hitters go up and look for a pitch in a location to drive when the count is even or in their favor (approach changes when they have two strikes)..most hitters hit fastballs better than any other pitch (it's straighter) and therefore more often than not will sit on that pitch when the count is even or in their favor. If they get it on the first pitch, they will jump on it, but if it is something else, they will lay off. This is what the game does not do. They will swing at bad strikes because it's a strike instead of because it's a pitch to drive.

Hopefully that makes sense...A slider at the knee's on the corner is a pitchers pitch because it's tough for the hitter to hit solid. It's not a pitch many guys can drive on a regular basis. So why would a hitter continue to swing at that pitch?

I don't think strikeouts is the issue...the hitters swing and miss. It's the fact that they swing at everything and every count, which makes pitch counts and the batter vs. pitcher experience unrealistic.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

Iand provide the sliders for tweaking by the hardcore fans. To me, this is what 2k9 does...

Unfortunately for one major aspect of the game, slider tweaks do not work to allieviate the problem.

[Muskrat]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

Just because a pitch is a strike doesn't neceassarily mean it's a good pitch to hit. Most pitchers don't just toss fastballs down the middle on their first pitch and then batters just take that pitch. They attack the edges of the zone because they know hitters are looking for a pitch they can drive, which is usually something over the heart or middle of the plate.

There are hitters who will take 99% of the time regardless of the pitch and location and there are some that will swing at almost anything, but most hitters go up and look for a pitch in a location to drive when the count is even or in their favor (approach changes when they have two strikes)..most hitters hit fastballs better than any other pitch (it's straighter) and therefore more often than not will sit on that pitch when the count is even or in their favor. If they get it on the first pitch, they will jump on it, but if it is something else, they will lay off. This is what the game does not do. They will swing at bad strikes because it's a strike instead of because it's a pitch to drive.

Hopefully that makes sense...A slider at the knee's on the corner is a pitchers pitch because it's tough for the hitter to hit solid. It's not a pitch many guys can drive on a regular basis. So why would a hitter continue to swing at that pitch?

I don't think strikeouts is the issue...the hitters swing and miss. It's the fact that they swing at everything and every count, which makes pitch counts and the batter vs. pitcher experience unrealistic.

I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense, but why should the AI not swing at a slider on the outside edge on the first pitch but then swing at the same pitch later in the count. I get that later in the count, say 0-2, you would have to swing at that pitch, as you are protecting the plate...I just don't have as big a gripe about swinging at strikes...again, this is from a casual fan who is not looking for a picture perfect recreation of the season. I want to see one of my guys with a .410 average, another with 80 home runs, and maybe yet another with a stolen base per game (that will never happen..I don't steal)...you get the point.

I at least understand the griping about the pitch counts and aggressive AI more than the people who have their panties all in a twist because the batting helmets are wrong or this jersey or that jersey isn't available.

[allBthere]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

Point blank, gamers should not need to put the extra time and effort into going out and finding sliders, or playing with sliders themselves, to get a passable game of baseball.

I stand by my statement - sliders are for tweaking and perfecting. They are not for fixing flaws the developers should have fixed on their own.

I cannot think of another product people can spend their hard earned dollars on where people make excuses for it being broken just - because you have the option of fixing it yourself.

Would you tell somebody who opened up a brand new Dell to crack open the case, grab a their soldering iron (yeah i spelled that wrong sliz) and fix it themselves?

"Come on! That loose chip isn't Dell's fault! Just spend the next hour putting it back in place and you'll be fine! Crybaby!"

the main difference is that 2k9 isn't broken...at least in my eyes. a typical game of mine I throw 85-95 pitches and the other team 95-120. That's not 'passable'? the game isn't for you...that's fine, but it's not broken imo either.

[Pared]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense, but why should the AI not swing at a slider on the outside edge on the first pitch but then swing at the same pitch later in the count. I get that later in the count, say 0-2, you would have to swing at that pitch, as you are protecting the plate...I just don't have as big a gripe about swinging at strikes...again, this is from a casual fan who is not looking for a picture perfect recreation of the season. I want to see one of my guys with a .410 average, another with 80 home runs, and maybe yet another with a stolen base per game (that will never happen..I don't steal)...you get the point.

I at least understand the griping about the pitch counts and aggressive AI more than the people who have their panties all in a twist because the batting helmets are wrong or this jersey or that jersey isn't available.

Have you ever seen baseball? (I don't mean this with disrespect so don't read that sentence that way.) In baseball, batters take pitches down the plate all the time.

[Muskrat]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

Have you ever seen baseball? (I don't mean this with disrespect so don't read that sentence that way.) In baseball, batters take pitches down the plate all the time.

Yes, I have seen baseball...in fact, last year I only missed watching maybe 4 Cubs games on MLB.com (I live in New York..no WGN). I have been a baseball fan for over 20 years and understand that players take pitches. BUT player take pitches because they don't know what's coming, or maybe they do and have problems hitting that pitch or location, or they expect something easier to handle later in the at-bat. I get it. But taking a pitch is based on a human element. Taking a first pitch strike that you can hit, simply because it's "what you do", to me, has always seemed a bit silly. If you think you can handle the pitch, why not go for it? Now, from an AI perspective, the AI knows what you are pitching and whether they can hit it or not..after all, we are playing the AI's game, so the only way the AI will take a pitch it can hit is for the programmer to put into place something that stops the AI from swinging at first pitches...simply because in baseball, that's what happens.

It appears that there are mechanisms in place in the game to get the AI to not be as aggressive, and those mechanisms are simply not working, THAT is a problem that should be remedied. The AI is simply swinging at pitches that it can hit...I can't fault it for doing that, I can fault the programmer for improper implementation of mechanics that are in place to preclude this from happening.

[Rocky]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

Point blank, gamers should not need to put the extra time and effort into going out and finding sliders, or playing with sliders themselves, to get a passable game of baseball.

I stand by my statement - sliders are for tweaking and perfecting. They are not for fixing flaws the developers should have fixed on their own.

I cannot think of another product people can spend their hard earned dollars on where people make excuses for it being broken just - because you have the option of fixing it yourself.

Would you tell somebody who opened up a brand new Dell to crack open the case, grab a their soldering iron (yeah i spelled that wrong sliz) and fix it themselves?

"Come on! That loose chip isn't Dell's fault! Just spend the next hour putting it back in place and you'll be fine! Crybaby!"

Nobody is making excuses for anything being broken. If it can be remedied with sliders, it's NOT broken. Period. That's what they are there for. If you feel like the CPU gets too many hits, then lower the slider and there is no problem. That analogy is terrible for the simple fact that games which I think are unplayable without sliders (again NCAA Football 2009...much more unplayable than this game out the box, NBA2K9) are capable and in many cases, enjoyable to alot of people with default sliders.

Point blank, the issues that MLB 2K9 has (wonky fielding, AI not taking strikes, lack of customization) can't be fixed with sliders. But don't give this rationale that sliders are meaningless or you shouldn't have to adjust them. They're apart of video games just like Franchise, CAP, Editing Players, etc.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense, but why should the AI not swing at a slider on the outside edge on the first pitch but then swing at the same pitch later in the count.

It's all a gamble. Your betting as a hitter that you will get a better pitch to drive.

There are pitchers pitches and hitters pitches.

A pitchers pitch is in a spot where he wants it that is non desirable to the hitter. Again because a pitch is a strike doesn't mean it's a good pitch to the hitter. Each player has certain areas of the plate that they are better at hitting than others. If a hitter can't hit pitches low and away very well, then if possible it's a pitch he wants to avoid unless of course it means striking out.

A hitters pitch is something in his zone that he is more likely to drive and will have a better chance of being successful in his AB at.

As a hitter, you want pitches in your zone. As a pitcher you want to throw strikes that are out of the hitters zone.

[Pared]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K9 Review

Yes, I have seen baseball...in fact, last year I only missed watching maybe 4 Cubs games on MLB.com (I live in New York..no WGN). I have been a baseball fan for over 20 years and understand that players take pitches. BUT player take pitches because they don't know what's coming, or maybe they do and have problems hitting that pitch or location, or they expect something easier to handle later in the at-bat. I get it. But taking a pitch is based on a human element. Taking a first pitch strike that you can hit, simply because it's "what you do", to me, has always seemed a bit silly. If you think you can handle the pitch, why not go for it? Now, from an AI perspective, the AI knows what you are pitching and whether they can hit it or not..after all, we are playing the AI's game, so the only way the AI will take a pitch it can hit is for the programmer to put into place something that stops the AI from swinging at first pitches...simply because in baseball, that's what happens.

It appears that there are mechanisms in place in the game to get the AI to not be as aggressive, and those mechanisms are simply not working, THAT is a problem that should be remedied. The AI is simply swinging at pitches that it can hit...I can't fault it for doing that, I can fault the programmer for improper implementation of mechanics that are in place to preclude this from happening.

Right, but the human element in video games is what typically is wrong with most games. That's what sets good games from bad games.

Think about Mortal Kombat where the CPU KNOWS what you are doing and can magically adjust. While this isn't THAT bad, it feels that way. Perception is reality, no? In this case, it would be...