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Old 06-14-2006, 12:52 PM   #1593
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Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

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Originally Posted by ILLCHILL
Hindsight is 20/20, but did anyone seriously want Tavarez out there over Timlin/Delcarmen?

Nobody mentioned that web gem by Punto, not like it seemed to matter the next half inning. But if two runs score of A-Gon's grounder and its men on the corners with 1 out its a diferent game.

Coco Crisp looked overmatched for the most part, can't really figure out why.

Schilling/Santana was amazing.

And now for the that joke Tavarez. He had good stuff IMO. But I think he got a little too caught up in that tailing 2-seam fastball he got Mauer with. He threw it three times to in one at-bat in the last at-bat. And like someone else said, I didn't see a sinker. Either 'Tek, who gets immunity foir the most thanks to that homer, or Tavarez needs to call a sinink fastball in those scenarios.

A two-seam fastball is a sinker, its the only fastball Tavarez throws.

Santana makes a lot of guys look overmatched, Coco is fine. He came into the game red-hot.
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:15 PM   #1594
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Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

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Originally Posted by Misfit
A two-seam fastball is a sinker, its the only fastball Tavarez throws.
Not sure about that. I've seen Tavarez throw a four-seam fastball. He does not have much control of it.
A two-seamer CAN sink, it does move, but it is not a sinker. The purpose of a sinker, different from the splitter, is to actually have the batter make contact with the ball and induce a grounder. Was there ONE ball that the Twins hit on the ground against him last night?
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Old 06-14-2006, 02:34 PM   #1595
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Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

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Was there ONE ball that the Twins hit on the ground against him last night?
Yes there was.

Once Kubel's ball died in the air, it hit the ground.
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Old 06-14-2006, 02:48 PM   #1596
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Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

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Originally Posted by heavyXBLLN
Not sure about that. I've seen Tavarez throw a four-seam fastball. He does not have much control of it.
A two-seamer CAN sink, it does move, but it is not a sinker. The purpose of a sinker, different from the splitter, is to actually have the batter make contact with the ball and induce a grounder. Was there ONE ball that the Twins hit on the ground against him last night?

If Tavarez throws a 4-seamer it is a rarity and probably only when he is ahead in the count and the catcher calls for a high fastball. A sinker is just a two-seamer. It is more of a case of how the pitcher throws the ball if his two-seam will have a lot of sink on it or if it will flatten out. Pedro Martinez, for example, throws from a 3/4 delivery and his two-seam gets more left to right movement on it than sink where as Roy Halladay is more over the top and his two-seamer gets more downward movement. Whenever you see Tavarez throw a pitch that appears to sink more than his regular 2-seam it is either a change-up (which is around 84 and 86 mph) or he is just taking a little off of his fastball. A two-seamer usually sinks more when thrown at lower speeds, which is why a lot of managers/pitching coaches will tell you it is a good thing for a sinker-ball pitcher to be a little fatigued. The grip for a two-seamer and sinker are exactly the same though.

For further reference: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseba...tchingpage.pdf

Last edited by Misfit; 06-14-2006 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:54 PM   #1597
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Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Im gonna have to respectifully disagree with you there Misfit, a two-seamer has a more horizontal motion than a sinker, although depening on the pitcher and arm angle it may be tougher to distuingish them.

But remember when Derek Lowe struck out that guy to end the 2003 ALDS at Oakland? That was a 2-seamer, which if you remember that pitch is totally seperate from his sinking fastball.
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:55 PM   #1598
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Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Clement out thanks to maybe some dead arm? Either way, probably a DL trip, especially thanks to his supreme ineffecitveness.
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:56 PM   #1599
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Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Hopefully he's done for the year
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Old 06-14-2006, 11:29 PM   #1600
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Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

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Originally Posted by ILLCHILL
Im gonna have to respectifully disagree with you there Misfit, a two-seamer has a more horizontal motion than a sinker, although depening on the pitcher and arm angle it may be tougher to distuingish them.

But remember when Derek Lowe struck out that guy to end the 2003 ALDS at Oakland? That was a 2-seamer, which if you remember that pitch is totally seperate from his sinking fastball.
When Derek Lowe throws his sinker harder, it moves more horizontally than it does sink. The grips are the same, just look at any instructional book on pitching.

What a rediculously frustrating game on all sides tonight. The pitching has stunk (9 walks, 1 hit batsmen, 0 strikeouts, 2 home runs allowed) and the offense has failed to get anything going against one of the league's worst starters. I refuse to watch anymore of this dreck.
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