OSFM v3: Pitch Edits

[OSfan093]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Finally someone who understands lol, a slider at 87 mph cannot have over a foot of horizontal movement as well, it would defy physics! In regards to Sinker vs 2-Seam, I have formulas for those, If it has twice as much vertical movement in relation to horizontal movement or greater than 22 inches of vertical movement, its a sinker to me. Velocites are a little too hot, I will probably lower them, but no more than 1 mph.

How will this affect the competitive balance when the minor leaguers come up and have really good sliders. Are you planning a sort of mass slider edit for minor leaguers with enough velocity?

[thebeaverbutcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by OSfan093

How will this affect the competitive balance when the minor leaguers come up and have really good sliders. Are you planning a sort of mass slider edit for minor leaguers with enough velocity?

Yeah, I kinda have the same question...


What would you recommended if we wanted to use the full 0-99 scale for sliders and cutters? I saw all of them, and you explained why they we so low. But I'm thinking ahead for when the CPU generates players, and the minor leaguers aren't on your scale

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by OSfan093

Sounds good. The only thing i'm worried about is the pitch speed you mentioned. I mean i think the speed on the radar gun is what speed we should want in the game. I'm not sure about this 55ft thing, i think the show sort of takes into account any variables like that. Anyway can't wait for this(might be changing all the velocities, i'm not sure, cause they looked ok on that spreadsheet) but overall this is going to complete the game for me. I will finally cave in and start a franchise after v3 and a few tweaks. EDIT: And the other thing i was noticing, like someone was saying above, i think you have some sinkers that should be 2SFB. And another thing i noticed was that you may have some Curveballs that need to be Sweeping Curves, and as a consequence of that some SCVs that should possibly be SLVs. but those are hardly big issues. I'm really interested to see how the slider thing works out. I mean it seems like something that would vastly increase the realism of the game, but i'm a little worried at how this will affect pitchers in game. I mean if i have a pitcher with 10 movement on his slider, even though IRL it might be nasty, will it hurt him in game. Like the hitters seem to hit it better? idk.

Regarding pitch types, I forgot to post my movement formulas, I will update the first post.

Here's the rundown on pitch types: I am looking solely at numbers, RPM, spin, and charts; I am not taking into account scouting reports, anecdotes, or anything of that nature. Also, do not trust any classifications related to gameday. That includes Fangraphs, Texas Leaguers, Joe Lefkowitz, etc. These sites pull data straight from MLB Gameday and publish the data verbatum. It has been well documented that a large number of the classifications are wrong, Gameday often confuses fastball types, breaking balls, and hard changeups (wow that covers every pitch). Brooks on the other hand, has their staff manually assigning pitch types based on the criteria I listed above, plus hours of video watching. Gameday on the other hand assigns pitches through computer alogrithms, no one looks over the data afterwards.

Quote: Originally Posted by redsfan4life

Looking forward to it as always, here's some info on the Reds...I didn't change the command ratings. ...

When you gave the Chapman example, I'm assuming SCEA gave him a 2-Seam correct? Currently I have him with a 4-Seam and a slurve, but that was in 2011. Brooks actually has him throwing two splitters so far, that's what I'm gonna go with for his third pitch (as my edits are based off of their site)

[redsfan4life]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Regarding pitch types, I forgot to post my movement formulas, I will update the first post. Here's the rundown on pitch types: I am looking solely at numbers, RPM, spin, and charts; I am not taking into account scouting reports, anecdotes, or anything of that nature. Also, do not trust any classifications related to gameday. That includes Fangraphs, Texas Leaguers, Joe Lefkowitz, etc. These sites pull data straight from MLB Gameday and publish the data verbatum. It has been well documented that a large number of the classifications are wrong, Gameday often confuses fastball types, breaking balls, and hard changeups (wow that covers every pitch). Brooks on the other hand, has their staff manually assigning pitch types based on the criteria I listed above, plus hours of video watching. Gameday on the other hand assigns pitches through computer alogrithms, no one looks over the data afterwards. When you gave the Chapman example, I'm assuming SCEA gave him a 2-Seam correct? Currently I have him with a 4-Seam and a slurve, but that was in 2011. Brooks actually has him throwing two splitters so far, that's what I'm gonna go with for his third pitch (as my edits are based off of their site)

Yeah this year he has definitely added a changeup. But since he throws it at 91 you'd have to classify it as a splitter in game.

[mmorg]

Will you be importing the SCEA version of Jamie Moyer into the OSFM roster?

[BegBy]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Finally someone who understands lol, a slider at 87 mph cannot have over a foot of horizontal movement as well, it would defy physics! In regards to Sinker vs 2-Seam, I have formulas for those, If it has twice as much vertical movement in relation to horizontal movement or greater than 22 inches of vertical movement, its a sinker to me. Velocites are a little too hot, I will probably lower them, but no more than 1 mph.

Oh no, dude, I agree totally on what defines a sinker, but my issue is really quite simple. Sinkers rarely hit the mid to high 90's, however it's very typical to see a 2 seamer average 93-94 and higher. Couple that with a lot of MLB pitchers just take a bit off and keep their 2 seamer low. It's just a fastball that by design tails off and natural produces ground outs. Also, and this is the main thing for me, in game, CPU controlled pitchers will throw a sinker anywhere. They don't keep it low exclusively, so I hate to see a pitch labelled a sinker whiz by the top of the strike zone at 94 MPH. As I said, it's my personal preference and some of it's based on watching so many (too many) pitchers. As an aside, but directly related - I find sinkers produce way, way, way too many pop ups in this game. The CPU batters get under them all the time. 2 seamers produce 3 times as many grounders in my experience.

Your stuff rocks, brother. I tell everyone that your edits for sliders is the single best roster edit I've seen in any sports game in the last 5+ years. You know yourself from playing them...once you face a dude with a slider with 20+ movement and can place it...forget about it. That pitch will fall off the back of the plate on you so often it'll give you fits. Get a lefty with a nasty slider and a hook and you'll win that game 9 times out of ten, no question.

I'd like to help if I could. I'm very busy for the next week, maybe week and a half...hence me being up now. After that I'm free, so if you need any help then, don't hesitate to pm me. I'll do anything I can.

[Jason_19]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Why is every pitch faster than what is listed in gameday, fangraphs, texas leaguers, etc. ? Brooks Baseball calculates speed 55ft from home plate instead of 60ft to take in account the average major leaguer's release point. Feel free to lower mph 1 tick.

I'm glad that you're planning on doing this.

Are you going to be looking up 2012 pitch speeds on any other pitch f/x site or are you just going to enter the speeds by taking a certain amount off of each pitch that you already have documented.

Either way, have you determined how much you're going to subtract from each pitch type?

I can't remember exactly how it worked on MLB 11 when it comes to certain pitches, but I'm pretty sure that I remember that changeups needed to remain the same. Fastballs needed about 1.3-2.3 mph subtracted (depending on the speed and the type of fastball). Sliders needed 1.7-2.3 mph subtracted. I never figured out curveballs, but I think I went with subtracting 1.1-1.3 mph. I think I used the same for slurves.

With that said, the softer a pitcher threw their fastball, the more he seemed to need subtracted off of it. For example, guys who had 90 mph fastballs in game seemed to be able to throw 93-94 fairly often and players who averaged 95 seemed to hardly ever throw 97. I ended up subtracting about 1.9-2.3 (depending on the pitcher) mph off of players who averaged 87-93 mph with their fastball and only about 1.7 mph off of players who averaged in the 94-95 range.

On top of that, each type of fastball seemed to a little different than the other when it came to this. It seemed like 4 seam fastballs usually needed 1.9-2.3 mph subtracted from their average speed. Sinkers and 2 seam fastballs seemed to need less subtracted.

It's been a while since I edited the speeds, so these numbers might not be exactly the way that it was, but it sounds right to me.

I definitely wouldn't base any of your edits off of what I just typed. I just wanted to explain what I was asking.

The whole in game system is silly and needs to be revamped.

[BegBy]

I agree with Jason in that the entire way speed is determined should be redone. Tim Lincecum is a perfect example this year. I haven't seen him throw over 92 more than 2 times and to be honest he's only hit 92 once or twice a game this season. He's throwing his stuff at pretty much an even 90, and I've even seen several at 89. In game, it's really hard to replicate. When I get him pitching 90, by middle innings I often see low fastballs drop to 86 and I've seen high fastballs hit 93 a couple times in a row. There are just certain numbers that I find difficult to actually average without large discrepancies. Not a deal breaker by any stretch, but a more refined system for how we execute pitch speed on the mound, and how the parameters of a pitch's speed while creating or editing would be a welcome change.

I'm just taking a short lunch here and thought I'd see how this thread is doing. More people need to be excited for these edits. They change the game entirely and in a very good way.