Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

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  • Blzer
    Resident film pundit
    • Mar 2004
    • 42523

    #1

    Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

    I'm only posting this because I believe there can be discussion about it. If this only holds merit in the feedback forum (where the "Presentation" thread is locked), then I understand. Otherwise, I would like other people's opinions on what refinements can be made with what is a somewhat mundane replay system.

    The big thing I wanted to throw out there was the sound portion of it. While we get a slowed down video of what happens, we also get in the audio. Watch any real game, and what you normally get is a continual live crowd cheer in the background of your color commentator explaining the slow-motion replay in full as it plays out. I'd like to show video examples, but they're hard to come by on YouTube (and MLB.com has many linking issues). I'll try and clarify this more if anyone has trouble understanding what I just said, but basically think of it as the audio being independent of the video in the replay. The only time they drown out the live audio of the game is if they do a full-speed replay, where they recapture the audio of that play.

    EDIT: Actually, I can provide examples through gameplay videos of MLB 11: The Show and MLB 2K11. If you just watch both games and how the audio is captured in the slow-motion replays, you'll notice how they differ (in MLB 2K11, it keeps the live audio in the background, as opposed to the slow-motion audio of the replay).

    That's actually what I want to transition to next. Not all replays are in slow-motion. If a player hits a triple, they normally replay it in full speed, possibly from a different fielding angle, so they can gauge the speed of the entire play. Or, maybe they'll do something like showing a slow motion shot of where the ball was located, then a slow motion shot of the ball hitting the ground and splitting the outfield (all with the live crowd audio in the background), then one final replay following the batter in full speed, from the swing to the slide at third base (all the meanwhile, this contains the audio of that actual play, in live speed).

    The third and final thing pertains to the camera angles. This may just be me, but I'm an avid fan of replay camera angles only being from possible locations in the stadium. In other words, there isn't really a camera man sitting on the field right in front of the left fielder, or there isn't really a camera that locks onto a player's waist and pans around with the player as he moves. For the most part, cameras are in stationary locations somewhere in the stands (whether they're at ground level or club level, etc.) and they only rotate and zoom, no panning (like the NFL Skycam). I know some of those other tricky replays hold some sort of artistic merit, but for authenticity's sake it might be a better decision to remove them entirely.

    And as a final note, I'm sure that real-time programming is already difficult enough to make happen without some sort of branching from game state to game state, but as far as that "live crowd audio" thing is concerned, other things are also happening live during the replay's duration, such as the crowd reacting to the jumbotron replay they're watching themselves, or the PA announcing the next batter (and the crowd reacting to that as well). I'm not sure how easy any of that is, but I just wanted to make note of it.

    All of this stuff probably could not be addressed in time for the 2012 version of the baseball game, but I didn't know what you guys thought of these suggested "authentic" changes either way, in case they might want to make them in the future. The first one I made note of has been in this game for as long as I can remember, and removing the "slow motion audio" would be a welcomed change for this game either way, just so the replay system doesn't feel so vapid in the future.
    Last edited by Blzer; 08-12-2011, 02:00 PM.
    Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / SVS SB-2000 / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / Sony PS3 & PS4 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 / Panamax M5400-PM / Elgato HD60
  • Heroesandvillains
    MVP
    • May 2009
    • 5974

    #2
    Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

    I'll second the idea of the "camera man" cameras, or atleast the implementation of preset stationary replay views, where hopefully the ball will automatically be tracked (as if a person were moving it).

    That, or some preset highlight views.

    I say this thanks to this insane play, where the Mets (CPU) blew a 2-2 game in the top of the 8th thanks to 2 errors, and a combined 4 total blunders...

    On one play.

    To lose the game.

    Just like the real Mets.

    I was cracking up pretty hard, and went to record the play onto the XMB. After about a half and hour, I had to just settle with the shots that I was able to muster.

    Controlling zoom, height, and ball tracking is enormously difficult to perform live. I'd love for some presets that would do it for me, if I were to choose to need one to do so.
    Last edited by Heroesandvillains; 08-12-2011, 03:09 PM.

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    • Blzer
      Resident film pundit
      • Mar 2004
      • 42523

      #3
      Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

      Well, I tried to stress "instant replays" because I meant the automatic ones that occur at the end of the play, not the manual ones that we can revert to. But now that you mention it, I've always wanted to use some of those presets as well, even if it means having an option to view it exactly as we saw it live (see ESPN Major League Baseball [2K4]).

      Some presets certainly would be nice. I think the main issue with this, though, is that it would be difficult to program because every stadium is so unique. This means that they would literally have to create different cameras for each stadium. They did this for the authentic broadcast behind-the-pitcher cameras, but they don't have to move at all. I assume what I'm asking for would be much more difficult. Something tells me that MVP Baseball 2005 had all "off-the-field" replay cameras, though.
      Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / SVS SB-2000 / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / Sony PS3 & PS4 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 / Panamax M5400-PM / Elgato HD60

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      • Yankees2009Champs
        Pro
        • Mar 2010
        • 710

        #4
        Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

        I absoluly love on home runs on ESPN and FOX when they follow the player as he touches home and runs to teammates at the dugout. Doesn't get better than that.
        "Undaunted, I knew the game was mine to win. Just like in life, ALL of my successes depend on me. I'm the man who has the ball, I'm the man who can throw it faster than heck. So that is why I am better than everyone in the world."

        Legendary pitcher Kenny Powers

        Comment

        • Vashyron.
          Banned
          • Jun 2011
          • 160

          #5
          Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

          Originally posted by Blzer
          The third and final thing pertains to the camera angles. This may just be me, but I'm an avid fan of replay camera angles only being from possible locations in the stadium. In other words, there isn't really a camera man sitting on the field right in front of the left fielder, or there isn't really a camera that locks onto a player's waist and pans around with the player as he moves.
          Why? Video games allow for things that can't be done in real life. I'm sure there are some really great looking replays that can be achieved using camera angles that aren't possible in real life. Why only have the game use camera angles that are possible in real life when the devs can get really creative and show us some awesome replays that just can't be done in real life? I understand some people want a TV broadcast style presentation but then just have a "TV presentation" option that doesn't use the impossible camera angles. I'm all for the devs experimenting and coming up with cool new replays that I just can't see on TV. If the TV guys COULD use literally any camera angle, they would.

          This game just has too many replays of routine plays. Also, it seems like every time a batter pops up a pitch, the game must show the replay of the entire flight of the ball, which takes FOREVER. Just stop it. Also, the ShowMotion stuff is way overdone, I don't need to see a pitcher very slowly winding up to throw a pitch. If you want to show something in slow motion, don't have the whole replay in slow motion, just the exact part of the play you want us to see in slow motion; heck, even use a fast-forward effect to get to the part you want to show in slow motion.

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          • Black59Razr
            Pro
            • Jul 2007
            • 561

            #6
            Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

            I play with replays off. I would prefer they don't invest a second on that part of the game. Especially with defense so atrocious!
            Originally posted by banned member
            My [RTTS] goals are to improve my bunting and drag bunting. You stupid !@#$, I'm almost leading the league in bombs; !@#$ you!

            Comment

            • spit_bubble
              MVP
              • Nov 2004
              • 3292

              #7
              Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

              Originally posted by Blzer
              ...This may just be me, but I'm an avid fan of replay camera angles only being from possible locations in the stadium...
              No it's not just you. I think I managed to suggest better replay cameras in the feedback forum this year, or maybe it was just better fielding cameras, I forget.

              Whatever the case it's not just the positioning of the camera that matters, it's also what the camera focuses on. On some HRs for example the current replay system in MLB will sometimes just show the ball flying in the sky for an extended length of time, with no real context or anything just a ball that looks like it's lost in space.

              The MVP series had the same problem. A while back I created a text file for MVP 06 and changed the replay camera to focus on the shadow of the ball rather than the ball itself. I also changed the zoom and the positioning, so that you would see is the ball within the context of the stadium, the fielder chasing after it, etc. It looked a lot better than the default.

              I think the main thing any camera, replay or real time, needs to do is frame all relevant information and follow the action appropriately. Often times what you see in games is really poorly programmed cameras, ones that seem mechanical and lifeless, and don't really properly frame the action right.

              Ideally I think MLB, or any game for that matter, would benefit if they handled it the same way a television network would. When there's a TV broadcast of a game they have everything set up to give the audience the best view of everything, with multiple cameras and a director to call the shots.
              All ties severed...

              Comment

              • Blzer
                Resident film pundit
                • Mar 2004
                • 42523

                #8
                Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

                Originally posted by Vashyron.
                Why? Video games allow for things that can't be done in real life. I'm sure there are some really great looking replays that can be achieved using camera angles that aren't possible in real life. Why only have the game use camera angles that are possible in real life when the devs can get really creative and show us some awesome replays that just can't be done in real life? I understand some people want a TV broadcast style presentation but then just have a "TV presentation" option that doesn't use the impossible camera angles. I'm all for the devs experimenting and coming up with cool new replays that I just can't see on TV. If the TV guys COULD use literally any camera angle, they would.
                It's posts like this that give this thread good reason to exist, because this is a worthy discussion.

                I will compromise with you and say that I wouldn't mind having the option of "all replay types" or "broadcast only replay types," if that makes sense. I personally wouldn't mind doing without the former myself, but The Show has always been about backwards compatibility (never removing features, only adding).

                My first real argument toward my opinion is I just appreciate authenticity. I prefer it over gameplay elements (like things that tie in the video gamer to the game itself, not things like realism... I tie that into authenticity more than anything else). Anything that makes me feel like I'm closer to witnessing a game live on television attracts me more, personally. I know the same can't be said for everybody, of course.

                My second "argument" would be that I can see those other views in manual replay if I want to. Those TV camera angles that don't ever show up in this game, I don't ever get to see (including manual replay).

                The final thing is that it would, yet again, be another way to help steer the game toward being a bit fresher. For the complaints about the game always feeling stale, it has a lot to do with the presentation front of the game, in all regards. Replay style would probably be one of them (especially the slow-motion effect with the synchronized audio). I just thought that planted stadium camera angles with rotate and zoom functionality might help some with that.
                Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / SVS SB-2000 / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / Sony PS3 & PS4 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 / Panamax M5400-PM / Elgato HD60

                Comment

                • treyraq
                  Rookie
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 493

                  #9
                  Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

                  My biggest gripe about replays are that the replay system doesn't understand the importance of the entire replay, start-to finish.
                  I mainly notice this on the post game highlights.

                  Say it shows a 2 RBI hit where the second run is a play at he plate. It just casually shows the hit, and ignores the actual highlight of the play...the second run scoring. I haven't been able to play in over a month so my memory isn't so fresh right now, but there are quite a few more examples of this.

                  Also, you can't really view home runs in replay mode. You can follow the path of the ball...but you can't really view the home run from a clean distance+perspective.

                  Comment

                  • cadillacsts05
                    Rookie
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 42

                    #10
                    Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

                    I wish I could vary the amount of replays. Too many times they show replays of a guy grounding out to short or popping up to first base. Why does it have to be all replays or no replays?

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                    • ludicent
                      Rookie
                      • Jan 2005
                      • 63

                      #11
                      Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

                      The heavy focus on simple popups needs to be toned down. I know FOX/ESPN does do some replays of foul or simple popups, but not nearly as much as The Show does.

                      Also, the slow-mo replays of a windup or swing in real life are awesome, but they are practically useless in a video game.

                      Comment

                      • thaSLAB
                        [Player 1]
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 4495

                        #12
                        Re: Instant replays: What can be improved with them?

                        Great post Blzer. I think something that simple makes a big difference in adding to a real life broadcast feel.

                        I would like to see a "how we got here" type of replay in the later innings or extra innings. Like a scoring recap, if you will... a lot of the broadcast stations do this, especially in high scoring games or games that go long stretches without anyone scoring. This would add nicely to the broadcast presentation, IMO.

                        It would also be cool to have some type of weekly highlights/top plays section where the newspaper is, similar to how you can customize the online dynasty page in NCAA football, but incorporate the saved highlights on your HDD.
                        Last edited by thaSLAB; 08-23-2011, 04:47 PM.
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