The Split Finger Change Up

[Phillies_Aces35]

This is a pitch that's become very popular with some of the game's best pitchers (most notably, Tim Lincecum and Roy Halladay). My question is, why is this pitch not incorporated into the game?

It's different from a split fingered fastball in that the finger's aren't as spread out and the movement is almost identical to a sinker... making it essentially a 2-seam change up.

[DanSF49]

Re: The Split Finger Change Up

Are you talking about the Vulcan Changeup? If you are, then it's in the game. The pitch in the game is called VCH. I just pitched with Dillon Gee of the Mets last night and he had the pitch.

[Phillies_Aces35]

Re: The Split Finger Change Up

The Vulcan change up is more of a variation of the circle change up. The split change up is essentially a sinker but with the fingers spread out more... just not to the effect of a split fingered-fastball or a forkball. It has that same type of movement though.

I know there's a link somewhere where Roy Halladay and Rich Dubee discuss the pitch in depth but I'm having trouble finding it.

[jmik58]

Re: The Split Finger Change Up



The split-finger change is also referred to as the "Fosh"... read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fosh_(baseball)

EDIT: Also, in reply to the OP... all changeups have sinking action, so if that's the reason you want a certain type of change then it's futile. The lack of speed and backspin on the ball causes the sinking action. You can get side to side action with basically any change by altering the tilt of the release as well.

[Richard.Chaffin]

Re: The Split Finger Change Up

The split finger changeup is different from the vulcan. The spilt change has more of a downward movement. 2K has this pitch as a choice and I was sad when I saw MLB didnt because I threw it when I pitched

[Phillies_Aces35]

Re: The Split Finger Change Up

The split-finger change is also referred to as the "Fosh"... read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fosh_(baseball)

EDIT: Also, in reply to the OP... all changeups have sinking action, so if that's the reason you want a certain type of change then it's futile. The lack of speed and backspin on the ball causes the sinking action. You can get side to side action with basically any change by altering the tilt of the release as well.

That's not the grip Halladay uses though... That's the vulcan change up, I know what it is. Roy Oswalt threw it when he pitched here.

I don't want the certain type of change up because it sinks... I want it because it's a grip that two of the best pitchers in the league use and it's not in the game. It's in 2k11 and they spent a lot of time developing the pitch with Roy Halladay.

I'm just describing the motion of it. I just want accurate pitch grips for the pitchers in this game. If Roy Halladay throws a split fingered change up, it should be in the game.

http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/phillies-talk/post/Phillies-Worley-gets-a-new-grip-on-thing?blockID=665348

<quote>"The grip that Halladay suggested is pretty basic. Put your index and middle fingers over the narrow seams, like a two-seam fastball grip, and spread them. That weakening of the grip takes just enough velocity off the pitch to separate it from a fastball. While the grip is similar to a splitter, it is not one, Dubee said. A splitter requires a little wider spread of the fingers and a deeper setting of the ball in the palm. Dubee instructs his pitchers to hold this pitch, a “split-change,” in the fingers and throw it with a loose wrist, like a two-seamer.</quote> "

I just don't understand why a pitch that's becoming popular with arguably two of the best pitchers in the game doesn't exist in the game.

The vulcan change IS in the game, but even if that was the grip Halladay/Lincecum used, I couldn't give it to them simply because it's only available for certain pitchers.

Pitch selection in this game is really the only area I've felt dissatisfied with; I think they do a great job by starting the thread in the rosters section, but I don't feel that's the appropriate place to put this as I'm drawing attention to a pitch missing from the game entirely, not just a pitch correction for a pitcher.

[nomo17k]

Re: The Split Finger Change Up

The way I think about this is it's more about the pitch movement than how it's gripped. Since after the pitch is released, the pitch moves according to physics (how the ball spins, how fast it was released, at what angle, etc., etc.). Even if grips are different, if the movements are similar, they are the same thing, only named differently.

[jmik58]

Re: The Split Finger Change Up

That's not the grip Halladay uses though... That's the vulcan change up, I know what it is. Roy Oswalt threw it when he pitched here.

I don't want the certain type of change up because it sinks... I want it because it's a grip that two of the best pitchers in the league use and it's not in the game. It's in 2k11 and they spent a lot of time developing the pitch with Roy Halladay.

I'm just describing the motion of it. I just want accurate pitch grips for the pitchers in this game. If Roy Halladay throws a split fingered change up, it should be in the game.

http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/phillies-talk/post/Phillies-Worley-gets-a-new-grip-on-thing?blockID=665348

<QUOTE>"The grip that Halladay suggested is pretty basic. Put your index and middle fingers over the narrow seams, like a two-seam fastball grip, and spread them. That weakening of the grip takes just enough velocity off the pitch to separate it from a fastball. While the grip is similar to a splitter, it is not one, Dubee said. A splitter requires a little wider spread of the fingers and a deeper setting of the ball in the palm. Dubee instructs his pitchers to hold this pitch, a “split-change,” in the fingers and throw it with a loose wrist, like a two-seamer.</QUOTE> "

I just don't understand why a pitch that's becoming popular with arguably two of the best pitchers in the game doesn't exist in the game.

The vulcan change IS in the game, but even if that was the grip Halladay/Lincecum used, I couldn't give it to them simply because it's only available for certain pitchers.

Pitch selection in this game is really the only area I've felt dissatisfied with; I think they do a great job by starting the thread in the rosters section, but I don't feel that's the appropriate place to put this as I'm drawing attention to a pitch missing from the game entirely, not just a pitch correction for a pitcher.

What are you talking about? I posted an image of the Vulcan Change with text included. Then I posted a link to the split-finger change (Fosh). Those are two different things.

[Phillies_Aces35]

Re: The Split Finger Change Up

What are you talking about? I posted an image of the Vulcan Change with text included. Then I posted a link to the split-finger change (Fosh). Those are two different things.

My mistake, I thought you were suggesting they were similar things. I don't understand why you think that requesting that a pitcher's grips be accurately represented is futile.

[jmik58]

Re: The Split Finger Change Up

No problem. You do have a good point about the pitches in the game. The biggest issue being that pitchers don't even have an accurate selection of the pitches they use in real life.

[Phillies_Aces35]

Re: The Split Finger Change Up

No problem. You do have a good point about the pitches in the game. The biggest issue being that pitchers don't even have an accurate selection of the pitches they use in real life.

Absolutely. Not only are the selctions not only inaccurate but velocity ratings as well. Sometimes I wonder if they just guestimate change up velocities.