Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

[pokerplaya]

I have long been looking for a game since the MVP days that would enable me to start a franchise that I'd be comfortable playing for years because of the quality of the game. I have that now, but I am concerned that with Pulse Pitching and Pure Analog hitting that I will completely skew the statistics... at least by what I'm hearing.

I'm looking to play 10 full seasons over 2-4 years so it makes sense to get as much information as possible before throwing around 2000 hours into something. What do you think? I was always a X360 guy, and now with the PS3, I'll admit I have only played The Show this year and don't know what to expect out of all the hitting/pitching options as far as franchise statistical realism for full play.

Thanks for reading, and in advance for your comments.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

This is quite a task! Good luck.

Personally, I use Timing hitting/Classic Pitching/Auto Fielding on All-Star for my Franchise. This is because I want player ratings to matter more than my ability to move a joystick or time a meter.

Have you played enough games yet to see if/where your stats are skewed?

I'm sure with whatever interface, if you select the appropriate difficulty for yourself, your stats will be very good. I just like to remove as many human elements as possible. Some people like that; some people don't .

[pokerplaya]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

This is quite a task! Good luck.

Personally, I use Timing hitting/Classic Pitching/Auto Fielding on All-Star for my Franchise. This is because I want player ratings to matter more than my ability to move a joystick or time a meter.

Have you played enough games yet to see if/where your stats are skewed?

I'm sure with whatever interface, if you select the appropriate difficulty for yourself, your stats will be very good. I just like to remove as many human elements as possible. Some people like that; some people don't .

Well, I'm guessing I'm striking out more than I should. No, I haven't gotten a ton of games into my franchise yet... just have read a bit about the skew and I honestly think I want to go somewhere along the lines of what you are doing, except that I like to field.

I still want that human element though... I don't want to feel like I'm only "hitting the button to advance the sim" -- I still want my skill to play SOME part. Currently, I'm using Pure Analog hitting and Pulse, both on AS with assist fielding. Current franchise, I'm 0-2, losing both my first two to Boston with Detroit, scoring only 3 off Beckett and Buchholz, 2 being on a moonshot by Prince. I struck out 21 times over the two games against Beckett, Bucky, and Aceves.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

Gotcha.

You just need to get whichever interfaces you want to use down. With practice, things such as excessive strikeouts will decrease. There is definitely a learning curve and that alone will skew anyone's stats. Fortunately, it's a long season.

Now...what exactly and where exactly did you hear about chronic stat skewing?

[pokerplaya]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

Gotcha.

You just need to get whichever interfaces you want to use down. With practice, things such as excessive strikeouts will decrease. There is definitely a learning curve and that alone will skew anyone's stats. Fortunately, it's a long season.

Now...what exactly and where exactly did you hear about chronic stat skewing?

Honestly, I think its just been from a collection of posts, I read a ton on here. Just see a lot of people only using timing/classic in an effort to make the ratings mean more (like yourself.)

This is what I want as well, as I know in my current franchise in MVP, I'm hitting like .230 with Miggy Cabrera in 2014 because of my own at-bats. So, it's probably both a collection of posts I've read, and seeing the phenomenon appear in front of my eyes so often. I've got like 600 games played in my franchise in MVP modded to 2011, and its present there with very similar hitting...

Haven't been TOO concerned personally yet, as I'm still getting used to the show, but I have like 90 games online so its not like I'm a rookie any longer.

[rymflaherty]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

Hopefully this year's game will be like MLB09 for me.
I was able to have the experience you were explaining......My Franchise was like my alternate Red Sox universe and I loved playing it so much I didn't need to move on to the next game. I was in my 3rd full season and would have still been playing if my PS3 didn't die.

I use meter/timing, so I can't speak on improving with pulse/analog......and it's too early to tell with this game, but I can say with timing/meter that year the overall stats were not skewed. I also had players that really went downhill, improved and some that stayed the same from year-to-year, so there was a great variety/unpredictability which gave the motivation to continue.

[pokerplaya]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

Hopefully this year's game will be like MLB09 for me.
I was able to have the experience you were explaining......My Franchise was like my alternate Red Sox universe and I loved playing it so much I didn't need to move on to the next game. I was in my 3rd full season and would have still been playing if my PS3 didn't die.

I use meter/timing, so I can't speak on improving with pulse/analog......and it's too early to tell with this game, but I can say with timing/meter that year the overall stats were not skewed. I also had players that really went downhill, improved and some that stayed the same from year-to-year, so there was a great variety/unpredictability which gave the motivation to continue.

My only concern is having the issue I mentioned earlier -- where I am "just hitting the button to advance the sim." I still want MY actions to matter, but I do want it to be more off player ratings as well. For example, in that franchise I mentioned in MVP, I've got Cabrera swinging around a .240 stick, with Austin Jackson batting a cool .428 in like June. COULD it happen? Sure, I guess it COULD.

A ten year franchise is just such a huge undertaking, and it is going to occupy me for years, so all I want is the ability to have those "MVP" type years with guys -- but not ridiculously unbalancing like being able to hit .400 every year with someone or multiple, 80 HR, etc...

[pokerplaya]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

To be fair, I haven't tried either timing hitting or classic pitching yet. I'll plug them in to my just started franchise and do a test game. Figuring I'd have to restart at least once anyways, may as well do it early if I don't like what I see.

I just hate testing franchise settings in non-franchise games. I don't know if The Show is like that, but in my years of testing sliders and settings in sports games, I've always found that Play Now type games and franchise games have different behaviors.

[pokerplaya]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

Also, I should probably point out that I'm nearly 34 years old now, so my twitch reflex is not what it used to be, so Zone Plus is pretty much off the table.

[braves2011]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

To be fair, I haven't tried either timing hitting or classic pitching yet. I'll plug them in to my just started franchise and do a test game. Figuring I'd have to restart at least once anyways, may as well do it early if I don't like what I see.

I just hate testing franchise settings in non-franchise games. I don't know if The Show is like that, but in my years of testing sliders and settings in sports games, I've always found that Play Now type games and franchise games have different behaviors.

I don't mean to hijack a thread, but after reading this I felt like I needed to 2nd this comment. I am going to assume it is because players are on hot/cold streaks?? Not sure..

Anyway, back on topic... Follow this theory and do your tests within a franchise.. I think if you test options only using play now exhibition games, you will get skewed results from what might happen compared to franchise games.

[pokerplaya]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

Nomo... I didn't think your reply was irrelevant at all.

[pokerplaya]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

OK, I played a few innings, and while I'm liking the timing, it almost feels as if zone would be more "sim" while still having something to do...but I'm wondering if Pure Analog would basically be the same, since you are essentially picking one of 3 "zones" on the right analog.

As far as classic pitching, I guess I can see the reason... but it doesn't feel like I have any control other than obviously saying "OK, I want it here."

Starting to think either Zone or Timing/Pulse may be ideal for me...

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...d.php?t=545712

I hear you in your Classic pitching impression. That's why I love it but I can definitely see why it may not be for you. If you decide to go back, check out the link above and go to page 5. I have a huge write up on how to use the interface.

It seems to me like Analog hitting may be a perfect fit for you. It requires user interaction, but ratings will have a lot to say about your outcomes. Again, I prefer Timing, but Analog is exactly what you describe wanting.

If BB's tend to be low using Pulse, drop the Consisteny slider to 4 or 3 and nothing more for a while. I love that interface, but found my ability to locate a tad too high for my tastes.

[pokerplaya]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...d.php?t=545712

I hear you in your Classic pitching impression. That's why I love it but I can definitely see why it may not be for you. If you decide to go back, check out the link above and go to page 5. I have a huge write up on how to use the interface.

It seems to me like Analog hitting may be a perfect fit for you. It requires user interaction, but ratings will have a lot to say about your outcomes. Again, I prefer Timing, but Analog is exactly what you describe wanting.

If BB's tend to be low using Pulse, drop the Consisteny slider to 4 or 3 and nothing more for a while. I love that interface, but found my ability to locate a tad too high for my tastes.

I believe I am going to give it the month of April with it on Pure Analog/Pulse. While I could definitely see the benefits to a more sim experience, I think (and I was only able to play a few innings before work) that I'll be around the same ballpark statswise, especially once I get some more experience under my belt. One month of gameplay if it just feels wonky is worth it completely for a ten year franchise.

I also just want to say thanks for all of your awesome posts in The Show forums.

I hadn't frequented the Show forums until I decided to purchase the PS3 for it, and you've been by far my favorite poster since I came through here. Been on Operation Sports a very long time, good to see there are still plenty of posters out there that act as "guiding lights" for others. Thanks on behalf of myself and the entire community.

[pokerplaya]

Re: Avoid Skewing Stats in Full Play Franchises?

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...d.php?t=545712

I hear you in your Classic pitching impression. That's why I love it but I can definitely see why it may not be for you. If you decide to go back, check out the link above and go to page 5. I have a huge write up on how to use the interface.

It seems to me like Analog hitting may be a perfect fit for you. It requires user interaction, but ratings will have a lot to say about your outcomes. Again, I prefer Timing, but Analog is exactly what you describe wanting.

If BB's tend to be low using Pulse, drop the Consisteny slider to 4 or 3 and nothing more for a while. I love that interface, but found my ability to locate a tad too high for my tastes.

I just wanted to add a few things... on the Classic pitching, and I'm sure its covered in your writeup that I'm going to in a second -- I really just needed to figure out the timing of the rumble. It seemed with Verlander that when I got the rumble and then released he really got wild. In general though, the ball really didn't seem to go where I wanted it to -- at all. On Pulse I'm at least in the vicinity. I can handle throwing balls, actually in Verlander's start in my franchise on Pulse, I had already thrown 100+ pitches in 6 innings. But, when I'm hitting the pulse, I'm at least in the vicinity of where I was placing the Ball Indicator. (I feel weird calling it a PCI for a pitcher though it seems to be the norm.)

The other thing I wanted to say about the Pure Analog (not Zone Plus) is that it seems to me to be Zone hitting on the analog stick, or at least "half-way" as you're directing the bat where you think the pitch is going. Obviously you can't aim low -- but to me it just seems to give more options, if you will, at the plate. I feel more like I'm able to reach out over the plate and slap one the other way. Again, sample size, but on default Timing that is how I felt initially, while still obviously seeing why it would be the most tuned towards letting the ratings do their work, with me just reading the pitch and swinging without worrying about anything but timing.

I had seen this skew mentioned a few times, but honestly the fact that more people have not spoken up and said something like "I use Pure Analog and I lead the league in all offensive categories all the time" or statements of the like makes me think I should just keep plugging away and get a larger franchise sample against many different pitchers up. Beckett and Buchholz are both fairly quality hurlers, after all.

Thanks again for the discussion, HNV, and everyone.