Putouts by position

[Jolly Roger]

Right, I questioned whether to even make this thread given that many people won't care about this issue but, in the event that some might, I'd like to talk about putouts in simulated games.

If you're like me, you're obsessive about realistic stats in The Show. Much to its credit, The Show seems to be right on when it comes to stats in simulated games. I have, however, detected a minor discrepancy in putout statistics which I'd like to draw attention to.

Using putout stats from Fangraphs, I calculated the average putouts per game by position. The breakdown goes like this:

1B: 8.5
C: 7.6
CF: 2.5
LF: 1.8
RF: 2.0
2B: 1.8
3B: 0.7
SS: 1.4
P: 0.6

In simulated games in The Show, I've noticed that catchers are getting a bit too many putouts, while first basemen are getting a bit too little.

First I thought that there might be too many strikeouts, which would raise catcher putouts and take away putout chances from the first basemen. As it turns out, strikeout numbers are right where they should be, so that can't be the issue.

I then simulated the first day of games for a season, so that I could look at one game stats for the whole league. What I noticed was that quite often the catchers had a few more putouts than there were strikeouts in the game. In reality, catcher putout numbers strongly mirror strikeout numbers, meaning that catchers very rarely make non-strikeout putouts (i.e., catching a pop-up or putting a man out at home plate).

So, I think the existence of too many non-strikeout catcher putouts is responsible for the elevated catcher putouts in simmed games, which also takes putout opportunities away from first basemen, which lowers their putout numbers from that of real life.

So, perhaps the sim engine can be tweaked for next year to take care of this admittedly small issue?

[Bobhead]

Re: Putouts by position

Simulated as in the quick-sim? Or are you manually running CPU vs CPU games?

[nomo17k]

Re: Putouts by position

I have some stats from simmed games that I have been meaning to look at a bit more carefully for a while:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FE&usp=sharing

and I think your observations may be right. I think I'm seeing the same thing.

I wonder how this is happening. Is this because of bug(s)? Or in simmed games there may be plays that are rare in real life actually happening more in the games? One thing to check is to look at the game log, but it would be kinda pain deep inside the *** to do this for quite a few games (since you need to start the regular games, and then sim forward to get those logs).

In any case, if we wish this to be fixed, it might be a good idea to file a report at theshownation.com...

[Bobhead]

Re: Putouts by position

If these are actual played games, I'd wager a great deal of money that it is tied to the high number of foul pop-ups that stay in play and end up being caught by the catcher.

I also see a lot of choppers and stuff that die right at the plate, and dropped third strikes where the catcher is able to scoop the ball and tag the batter out himself... both things that almost never happen in real life.

[birthday_massacre]

Re: Putouts by position

If these are actual played games, I'd wager a great deal of money that it is tied to the high number of foul pop-ups that stay in play and end up being caught by the catcher.

I also see a lot of choppers and stuff that die right at the plate, and dropped third strikes where the catcher is able to scoop the ball and tag the batter out himself... both things that almost never happen in real life.

Yep its def the pop ups, I get at least 3-4 catcher popout putouts a game.

[Jolly Roger]

Re: Putouts by position

Simulated as in the quick-sim? Or are you manually running CPU vs CPU games?

Yes, quick-sim. I briefly tried out some CPU vs. CPU games but abandoned it after realizing my franchises and playoff modes would take forever if I ran all of the games on-screen.

I have some stats from simmed games that I have been meaning to look at a bit more carefully for a while:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FE&usp=sharing

and I think your observations may be right. I think I'm seeing the same thing.

I wonder how this is happening. Is this because of bug(s)? Or in simmed games there may be plays that are rare in real life actually happening more in the games? One thing to check is to look at the game log, but it would be kinda pain deep inside the *** to do this for quite a few games (since you need to start the regular games, and then sim forward to get those logs).

In any case, if we wish this to be fixed, it might be a good idea to file a report at theshownation.com...

I imagine it's not so much a bug, so much as the sim engine is probably producing too many popups to the catcher. We should be able to check this in that "gamecast" mode where you actually watch the sim play out. Then again, maybe that doesn't result in a record of putouts? I'll check this later today.

If these are actual played games, I'd wager a great deal of money that it is tied to the high number of foul pop-ups that stay in play and end up being caught by the catcher.

I also see a lot of choppers and stuff that die right at the plate, and dropped third strikes where the catcher is able to scoop the ball and tag the batter out himself... both things that almost never happen in real life.

I know what you mean, but this actually hasn't had a big impact for me stat-wise because I have solid hits at 4 (I used to have it at 3 and there were too many choppers and pop-ups) and fielder reaction at 2 or 3 (can't remember). In my played games, the putouts by position seem to be accurately proportional.