2015 Chicago Cubs

[Figment]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoeCoolMan24

Starlin Castro a 90-92 rating? Bad baserunner, average defender, average hitter. He's more like an 82-84.

I'm gonna go ahead and say this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. If you're just going to swing by and trash talk a player, at least supply the proof.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Quote: Originally Posted by Figment

That makes sense. So barring injury or trade, the pitching roster looks a lot more set than it appeared, at least to me. I think the only competition is really between Wood, Turner, and Wada on who starts 5th and who's in the pen.

Well, Wood and Turner are both out of options if I am not mistaken, so I would say Wada is the odd man out. He's old and really doesn't have a place on a young roster being build for the future. Plus he may actually have options left which means the Cubs might be able to option him the Iowa.

[OhioCub]

Quote: Originally Posted by CWSpalehoseCWS

Well, Wood and Turner are both out of options if I am not mistaken, so I would say Wada is the odd man out. He's old and really doesn't have a place on a young roster being build for the future. Plus he may actually have options left which means the Cubs might be able to option him the Iowa.

Pretty sure he doesn't have options either and he was really bad last spring, if he has another spring like that he'll definitely be gone. Plus, he's the most likely to make it through waivers, although that's even a long shot.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Quote: Originally Posted by Figment

I'm gonna go ahead and say this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. If you're just going to swing by and trash talk a player, at least supply the proof.

Yes, this same guy did the same thing last year with Cubs OSFM. Likes to buzz the tower of all things Cubs to feed his Cubs vs Sox inferiority complex....make it seem like Cubs fans are sticking it to him somehow.

Not only that, but he appears to think what you have for POT is actually OVR ratings. I would agree that a 90-92 OVR for Castro is too high at this point. But, to say his POT is scraping the lowest B is commit-yourself-to-an-asylum looney. Average defense at SS with .300 20 HR potential and just barely 25 years old by OD.

[MrOldboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaitTilNextYear

Yes, this same guy did the same thing last year with Cubs OSFM. Likes to buzz the tower of all things Cubs to feed his Cubs vs Sox inferiority complex....make it seem like Cubs fans are sticking it to him somehow. Not only that, but he appears to think what you have for POT is actually OVR ratings. I would agree that a 90-92 OVR for Castro is too high at this point. But, to say his POT is scraping the lowest B is commit-yourself-to-an-asylum looney. Average defense at SS with .300 20 HR potential and just barely 25 years old by OD.

You have to keep in mind position when looking at The Show overalls. Make a player and than change his position and watch how it affects his overall.

People get very hung up on overall in the game, but in the end it does not mean player A is better than player B in most cases.

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaitTilNextYear

Yes, this same guy did the same thing last year with Cubs OSFM. Likes to buzz the tower of all things Cubs to feed his Cubs vs Sox inferiority complex....make it seem like Cubs fans are sticking it to him somehow. Not only that, but he appears to think what you have for POT is actually OVR ratings. I would agree that a 90-92 OVR for Castro is too high at this point. But, to say his POT is scraping the lowest B is commit-yourself-to-an-asylum looney. Average defense at SS with .300 20 HR potential and just barely 25 years old by OD.

What you just described is an 86 OVR

+10 to L/R contact
+10 to L/R power
+10 to fielding ability

After doing those things I get 86 - remember that it takes either an a) exceptionally well rounded player or b) 2+ elite tools to crack 90. For example, the latter would look like this:

+20 to L/R contact
+10 to L/R power
+30 to fielding

I get a 91 after doing this.

Personally I think Castro peaks at 4 wins, which is about a mid-80's overall.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Quote: Originally Posted by MrOldboy

You have to keep in mind position when looking at The Show overalls. Make a player and than change his position and watch how it affects his overall. People get very hung up on overall in the game, but in the end it does not mean player A is better than player B in most cases.

Actually my point was that people are conflating OVR and POT when they shouldn't be. Too many people think ratings when they see 90 POT.

I don't care much about OVRs either.

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

What you just described is an 86 OVR +10 to L/R contact +10 to L/R power +10 to fielding ability After doing those things I get 86 - remember that it takes either an a) exceptionally well rounded player or b) 2+ elite tools to crack 90. For example, the latter would look like this: +20 to L/R contact +10 to L/R power +30 to fielding I get a 91 after doing this. Personally I think Castro peaks at 4 wins, which is about a mid-80's overall.

Problem with this analysis is that you're hardcapping Castro at numbers I scribbled out on the back of a napkin. When setting potential, it's important to build in room to grow. While it's most likely that Castro simply hits .290 with about 15 HR and passable defense for the forseeable future, one has to consider the possibility he could go for .315 and 25 HR at his peak (in the right lineup and with the right coaching/attitude). He could also improve on his defense. That's why a low A POT is fair for the 24 year old 3x All Star that plays SS.

I agree with your ~4 win projection, but it's pretty easy to make Castro a 90 OVR, without roiding him up anywhere in particular, if you fool around with the sliders long enough. There are a lot more ways to do it than just drastically boosting a few sliders.

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaitTilNextYear

Actually my point was that people are conflating OVR and POT when they shouldn't be. Too many people think ratings when they see 90 POT. I don't care much about OVRs either. Problem with this analysis is that you're hardcapping Castro at numbers I scribbled out on the back of a napkin. When setting potential, it's important to build in room to grow. While it's most likely that Castro simply hits .290 with about 15 HR and passable defense for the forseeable future, one has to consider the possibility he could go for .315 and 25 HR at his peak (in the right lineup and with the right coaching/attitude). He could also improve on his defense. That's why a low A POT is fair for the 24 year old 3x All Star that plays SS. I agree with your ~4 win projection, but it's pretty easy to make Castro a 90 OVR, without roiding him up anywhere in particular, if you fool around with the sliders long enough. There are a lot more ways to do it than just drastically boosting a few sliders.

Of course I'm hardcapping, I just said I expected him to peak around 4 wins... the numbers you are suggesting go far beyond that. That kind of batting line with average defense is Andrew McCutchen...

I just gave you two scenarios, one of which you yourself provided, that proves how hard it is to hit 90 OVR in this game. If you go by Knight's charts, the second scenario I provided has Castro batting ~.320 with 20 HR's and a 95 defensive rating. To call that a pipe dream is an understatement, and despite all of that, he still only rates out to a 91. What it comes down to is what Mr Oldboy said, and how certain positions value certain attributes more than others. For a SS, fielding and throwing top the list.

Now move him to second base and that's where you get your A potential.

Still, I'm a little concerned with how you see potential in this game. With all of the opportunities to gain or even lose potential, settling for a more realistic rating is best IMO. The number of players that actually hit their ceiling are few and far between - starting at the middle ground gives a player a wider range of outcomes as opposed to setting him too high, which eliminates the chance for a bust. If there was a legitimate bust factor in the game then I would be in the same boat as you, but there's not, so its better to err on the safe side.