#OSFM 17: Chicago Cubs World Series Champions

[Figment]

Quote: Originally Posted by OhioCub

Actually, sinker is right for him. Going by pitch fx, which is always more accurate than what we visually see, he has quite a bit less lateral movement than alot of 2-seamers. What makes it look like so much is the lower velocity, which is also the same reason he should have a sinker. A 2-seamer with that low of velocity should always be a sinker. What gives the sinker its sink is the effect of gravity and a lower velocity pitch is always going to sink more than a high velocity pitch. Our eyes are trained in such a way that we don't visually perceive sink as much as we see lateral movement. That's why they call high 4-seamers rising fastballs sometimes. They have so much backspin that, to our eyes, they appear to defy gravity and appear to rise, even though they don't. Anyway, enough about that. For the cut change, I've looked through everything and unless you make it a breaking ball (which I wouldn't recommend as it's a different type of break) there is nothing. circle changes drop and fade, vulcan changes drop and fade, straight changes just drop, as do splitters, forkballs and palmballs, which I believe covers the entire offspeed category. I'm leaning towards just using circle change as his main changeup and a straight change as his cut change. The cutter, even with lower velocity, doesn't sink the way it should. As for Arrieta, his slider is a slider. The only reason some announcers call it a cutter is because in the past he's thrown it 90+ mph. He doesn't have the backspin on it to call it a true cutter though. A cutter should tail but also have enough backspin that it doesn't sink all that much. A slider should tail and sink because if thrown perfectly it should have no topspin or backspin either way, only lateral spin. Last year Arrieta's slider only had, on average, 2.44 inches of backspin. Compare that to Kenley Jansen's cutter and you'll see he had, on average, 9.22 inches of backspin on average. Both elite pitches but obviously different. Ironically, Jansen's slider could be classified as a slurve as it has 1.88 inches of topspin on average. If you're interested I could post my personal pitch edits for the Cubs pitchers.

Great information. I am very interested to see what edits you have

[Figment]

So I just looked back at the rosters going back to The Show 14.

Mike Montgomery has the pitching styles of Joe Kelly in 17, 16, and 15 for SCEA and OSFM used Generic Windup 10 for him in 15 and 14. The Stances and Deliveries Thread recommends Vet Windup 18.

Carl Edwards Jr is Generic Windup 1 in 17 for SCEA, was Mike Fiers in 16 and 15 for SCEA, Homer Bailey for OSFM 15, and Wandy Rodriguez for OSFM 14.

This is all I could find in some quick research. I won't get a chance to try any of these for a couple of weeks, so let me know if any of them work.

[bmf395]

Quote: Originally Posted by OhioCub

Actually, sinker is right for him. Going by pitch fx, which is always more accurate than what we visually see, he has quite a bit less lateral movement than alot of 2-seamers. What makes it look like so much is the lower velocity, which is also the same reason he should have a sinker. A 2-seamer with that low of velocity should always be a sinker. What gives the sinker its sink is the effect of gravity and a lower velocity pitch is always going to sink more than a high velocity pitch. Our eyes are trained in such a way that we don't visually perceive sink as much as we see lateral movement. That's why they call high 4-seamers rising fastballs sometimes. They have so much backspin that, to our eyes, they appear to defy gravity and appear to rise, even though they don't. Anyway, enough about that. For the cut change, I've looked through everything and unless you make it a breaking ball (which I wouldn't recommend as it's a different type of break) there is nothing. circle changes drop and fade, vulcan changes drop and fade, straight changes just drop, as do splitters, forkballs and palmballs, which I believe covers the entire offspeed category. I'm leaning towards just using circle change as his main changeup and a straight change as his cut change. The cutter, even with lower velocity, doesn't sink the way it should. As for Arrieta, his slider is a slider. The only reason some announcers call it a cutter is because in the past he's thrown it 90+ mph. He doesn't have the backspin on it to call it a true cutter though. A cutter should tail but also have enough backspin that it doesn't sink all that much. A slider should tail and sink because if thrown perfectly it should have no topspin or backspin either way, only lateral spin. Last year Arrieta's slider only had, on average, 2.44 inches of backspin. Compare that to Kenley Jansen's cutter and you'll see he had, on average, 9.22 inches of backspin on average. Both elite pitches but obviously different. Ironically, Jansen's slider could be classified as a slurve as it has 1.88 inches of topspin on average. If you're interested I could post my personal pitch edits for the Cubs pitchers.

I'd also be interested in seeing your edits

[OhioCub]

Quote: Originally Posted by bmf395

I'd also be interested in seeing your edits

I'm still tweaking some break ratings so once I get those where I feel like they're where they should be I'll get em posted.

[trackstar121388]

Quote: Originally Posted by OhioCub

Actually, sinker is right for him. Going by pitch fx, which is always more accurate than what we visually see, he has quite a bit less lateral movement than alot of 2-seamers. What makes it look like so much is the lower velocity, which is also the same reason he should have a sinker. A 2-seamer with that low of velocity should always be a sinker. What gives the sinker its sink is the effect of gravity and a lower velocity pitch is always going to sink more than a high velocity pitch. Our eyes are trained in such a way that we don't visually perceive sink as much as we see lateral movement. That's why they call high 4-seamers rising fastballs sometimes. They have so much backspin that, to our eyes, they appear to defy gravity and appear to rise, even though they don't. Anyway, enough about that. For the cut change, I've looked through everything and unless you make it a breaking ball (which I wouldn't recommend as it's a different type of break) there is nothing. circle changes drop and fade, vulcan changes drop and fade, straight changes just drop, as do splitters, forkballs and palmballs, which I believe covers the entire offspeed category. I'm leaning towards just using circle change as his main changeup and a straight change as his cut change. The cutter, even with lower velocity, doesn't sink the way it should. As for Arrieta, his slider is a slider. The only reason some announcers call it a cutter is because in the past he's thrown it 90+ mph. He doesn't have the backspin on it to call it a true cutter though. A cutter should tail but also have enough backspin that it doesn't sink all that much. A slider should tail and sink because if thrown perfectly it should have no topspin or backspin either way, only lateral spin. Last year Arrieta's slider only had, on average, 2.44 inches of backspin. Compare that to Kenley Jansen's cutter and you'll see he had, on average, 9.22 inches of backspin on average. Both elite pitches but obviously different. Ironically, Jansen's slider could be classified as a slurve as it has 1.88 inches of topspin on average. If you're interested I could post my personal pitch edits for the Cubs pitchers.

I'd love to see your pitch edits.

[OhioCub]

Ok, I've actually had these pitch edits done since yesterday but just haven't had time to sit down and post em. Some things to take into account. First, I'm not one of these people who believe all 4-seam FB's should be replace with running FB's although there are a few. Second, my control ratings were derived with my own formula I came up with using ball/strike percentages. Third, while pitchFX data is very useful, it can also be somewhat misleading. There's so many other factors that come into effect when trying to determine one singular "break" rating. Because of that I simplified things by using each pitches "whiff" percentage as a gauge for how deceptive a pitch is. One thing that has been learned from the newer statcast information out there is that spin rate plays a much bigger role than velocity in determining how unhittable a pitch is. So anyway, here's what I've come up with for our Cubs.

Aaron Brooks: 4SM-92.5/70/28 CIR-83.3/78/61 SL-85.9/67/49 SNK-91.5/67/38 SCV-78.1/47/38

Alec Mills: RFB-92.8/53/50 SNK-92.8/52/81 CIR-80.2/81/56 CB-75.9/47/50 SLRV-80.3/57/20

Brett Anderson: SNK-91.3/67/53 SLRV-82.7/85/45 4SM-91.8/58/29 KCV-76.7/66/15 CIR-84.1/68/18

Brian Duensing: 2SM-92.2/72/18 4SM-92.6/84/47 SL-81.8/65/53 CIR-85.6/59/48 12-6-73.4/23/27

Carl Edwards Jr.: 4SM-95.8/64/90 CB-81.4/54/77 CIR-90.1/78/60

Eddie Butler: 2SM-93.8/70/36 4SM-94.4/70/40 SL-87.9/66/48 CB-80.6/59/32 CIR-88.4/53/20

Felix Pena: 4SM-94.4/69/74 SL-81.9/77/77 CIR-87.4/50/20

Hector Rondon: 4SM-96.7/83/64 SL-86.2/65/47 2SM-96.9/54/58 CIR-90.6/71/36

Jake Arrieta: 2SM-94.4/70/69 SL-89.7/71/42 CB-81.1/57/64 4SM-94.3/52/54 CIR-89.0/45/73

Jake Buchanan: SNK-89.4/79/22 SL-83.3/77/59 CB-76.9/57/47 CIR-84.0/38/38 4SM-89.8/63/80

John Lackey: 4SM-92.5/74/56 SL-83.8/71/71 SNK-92.2/74/50 CB-78.8/74/38 CIR-84.9/49/41

Jon Lester: 4SM-93.1/71/46 CUT-89.5/75/67 SCV-75.3/49/79 SNK-91.8/64/58 CIR-85.6/67/71

Justin Grimm: CB-83.2/66/72 4SM-95.1/60/44 RFB-94.2/36/44

Koji Uehara: 4SM-87.4/84/75 SPLT-79.1/75/62 CUT-82.6/56/63

Kyle Hendricks: SNK-88.1/76/33 4SM-88.9/69/56 CIR-80.6/77/75 CH-80.6/77/75 SCV-76.0/53/14

Mike Montgomery: RFB-94.3/65/42 12-6-77.8/62/58 SNK-94.5/55/32 CUT-89.7/77/78 CIR-84.5/67/71

Pedro Strop: SL-83.9/79/79 2SM-95.7/63/40 4SM-95.6/67/37 SPLT-88.3/4/39

Rob Zastryzny: 4SM-90.5/75/60 CB-78.1/67/90 CUT-85.0/55/42

Wade Davis: 4SM-95.4/75/71 CUT-92.2/59/70 KCV-83.9/62/69

Also, before anyone asks, yes I've thought about doing my own set for the whole league but I just don't have time. I work 2 jobs, have a family, including a daughter who's involved with just about everything you can think of in school so it's a challenge to even find time to play the game.

[ItAllFades]

Quote: Originally Posted by Figment

So I just looked back at the rosters going back to The Show 14. Mike Montgomery has the pitching styles of Joe Kelly in 17, 16, and 15 for SCEA and OSFM used Generic Windup 10 for him in 15 and 14. The Stances and Deliveries Thread recommends Vet Windup 18. Carl Edwards Jr is Generic Windup 1 in 17 for SCEA, was Mike Fiers in 16 and 15 for SCEA, Homer Bailey for OSFM 15, and Wandy Rodriguez for OSFM 14. This is all I could find in some quick research. I won't get a chance to try any of these for a couple of weeks, so let me know if any of them work.

Generic 1 is the worst thing ever. That leg kick is awful.

[Figment]

Rob Zastryzny, Felix Pena, and Jeimer Candelario all need significant bumps. These guys are all MLB ready, but their ratings barely have them AAA ready.

Side note, time to DFA Brett Anderson and give the 5th spot to Mike Montgomery or Eddie Butler


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