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Dowie's HOF Set: Clean Screen, Directional, Classic,

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Old 08-25-2022, 08:00 PM   #17
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Re: Dowie's HOF Set: Clean Screen, Directional, Classic,

Quote:
Originally Posted by dowie
Game #4 of day #1 of the MLB season
Braves (me) at Marlins (cpu)
Morton vs Alcantara

ATL 7 runs, 9 hits, 0 errors
MIA 1 runs, 5 hits, 0 errors

ATL: 2 2b, 3 hr, 8bb, 8k .265 batting avg.
MIA: 1 hr, 2 bb, 7k, 2 hbp .161 batting avg.

ATL: 123 pitches thrown, 63% strikes, 50% 1st pitch strikes
MIA: 178 pitches thrown, 55% strikes, 52% 1st pitch strikes

ATL: 18% fouls, 31% swing and miss
BAL: 17% fouls, 21% swing and miss

Thoughts:
I'd expect playing w/ ATL that I could handle the lowly Marlins and I was right. Alcantara isn't rated as high as he performs in real life, but he led off the game with 3 straight BB's. I am a super patient hitter, BUT that's 19BB for me in two games (maybe pitch speed needs to increase?). Thing is, I swing and miss a ton, so not sure it's a direct result of pitch speeds. I just think it's a combo of the game is programmed to throw a ton of balls out of strike zone and I am essentially Joey Votto or the 98 Yankee/ all of my hitting approach (maybe cpu control/consistency needs to be raised so they pump more strikes? 5 of my 7 runs came via HR, Miami's only run, you guessed it, a HR....YUCK! Feels like breaking balls are too slow, FB's seem right (maybe increase off-speed pitch speed by 1 click? User controlled pitches have som much movement - even when i am down the middle (which is rare) they always drift to the corners. Fly balls are still too lofty for my liking, and I've noticed I never see screamers hit down the line....even gappers hang in the air "forever". Solid hits below default might not work? Cpu bullpen mgt with new set up still seems ok...it'll never be perfect (they brought their long-man in the game in the 9th and he was in the middle relief slot.
Yeah, the cpu just does not know how to use the LR guy. But better than him going 4 IP every game.
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Old 08-25-2022, 08:58 PM   #18
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Re: Dowie's HOF Set: Clean Screen, Directional, Classic,

Not sure this initial set is sustainable. I might make minor ajustments and play the next 4 games on the day 1 schedule to compare against my 1st 4 games played.

I wanted to see: 25% swing & miss p/team
62-65 strike percentages p/team
roughly 295 pitches thrown per game/147 per team
average 54 fouls per game (15-18% of swings should result in a foul)

In 4 games, my averages are:
32% swing and miss (too high, but that's likely user based "lack of skill" more so than a slider-based outcome)
64% strike % - darn near PERFECT!
144 pitches thrown -darn near PERFECT!
16% fouls - darn near PERFECT!

In 4 games the cpu averages are:
19.5% swing and miss (too low, but really only by 5%-ish - blame it on HOF level?)
58% strike % - again too low, but only by 5-ish%
160 pitches thrown - over by roughly 12 p/game, gotta keep an eye on that...again, maybe I am too patient at the plate and need to swing more?
19% fouls - just a tad over, not alarming at all.

So what do I make of all this.......user pitching from a strike %, fouls given up, pitches thrown couldn't really be more aligned with MLB avgs. The cpu doesn't swing/miss enough, but that could be because of lineups, my pitching pattern etc., playing on HOF etc. I think it's close enough though. Cpu seems to throw too many balls and doesn't challenge hitters enough....quite a few things could cause that, and not sure slider tweaks are the answer (control/stamina)?

what else is going on:
I avg 7 hits a game, the cpu avg's 11
I avg 8 k's per game on offense, the cpu avg's 8 k's per game on offense....both are really solid #'s
I avg 6 bb on offense, (way too high), the cpu avg's 5 , (too high as well)

5 of my 27 hits are 2b's.....too high need more singles
9 of cpu's 42 hits are 2b'....too high, need more singles

0 triples, likely because balls aren't hit hard enough into the gaps?

I have 9 hr's in 4 games (too high)
Cpu has 5 hr's in 4 games (really good, BUT too many runs scored by HR)

Now I know chasing stats (MLB avg's) is futile, it's a video game. However, I find it fun to look at #'s and see how it compares to real life. I think this is where MLBTS 20 shines (even hit distribution, and how the runs are scored).
MLBTS 22 may have gotten it right though, because how do majority of teams score in real life - THE LONG BALL. i hate it, but it's true.

For the next 4 games, I think I'll increase cpu pitch control and consistency to 6, and see if that will bring their strike % up and lower their # of pitches thrown WITHOUT throwing the user offensive #'s out of whack.

I'll also raise solid hits 1 click back to default for both sides to try and alleviate the sheer volume of lofty, innocent fly balls that have more hang time than an NFL punt. Again though, that might mean even more hr's and 2b's (see how it's a never ending chase for balance). I'll need to keep an eye on field reaction and field run speed with balls likely coming off the bat faster (might be the secret to more singles though)? I haven't seen 1 error (either side) in 4 games...that's gotta stop. I am going to increase errors 1 click across all 4 of those sliders and see how messy the play on the field gets (answer is probably some combination of those 4 sliders "some" at default and some at 6). Last thing is pitch speed...at least on my tv, FB speed looks/feels good, but breaking balls seem way too slow. I know you have to have a difference in speed, but raising breaking ball pitch speed by 1 is something I won't do yet, but will think about. I think the speeds are just too far apart (felt the opposite on MLBTS 20).

Dowie
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Old 08-25-2022, 08:59 PM   #19
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Re: Dowie's HOF Set: Clean Screen, Directional, Classic,

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanm1982
Yeah, the cpu just does not know how to use the LR guy. But better than him going 4 IP every game.
YUP, no complaints though, just felt weird. Especially in game 1 of the season when all BP arms are fresh.

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Old 08-26-2022, 03:06 AM   #20
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Re: Dowie's HOF Set: Clean Screen, Directional, Classic,

Game #5 of day #1 of the MLB season
Tigers at Mariners (me)
Mize vs Gilbert

DET 12 runs, 15 hits, 0 errors
SEA 11 runs, 14 hits, 2 errors

DET: 6 2b, 3 hr, 5bb, 10k .349 batting avg.
SEA: 5 2B, 2 hr, 3 bb, 14k, 1 hbp .341 batting avg.

DET: 176 pitches thrown, 62% strikes, 58% 1st pitch strikes
SEA: 170 pitches thrown, 64% strikes, 60% 1st pitch strikes

DET: 16% fouls, 20% swing and miss
SEA: 14% fouls, 40% swing and miss

Thoughts:
I played this game w/ some tweaks to the sliders "changed them on OP": (increased solid hits to 5 for both sides, increased control and consistency to 6 for both sides and increased all errors to 6. Stats aside, the goal is to have fun....well, this game wasn't fun -I like pitcher duels! Obviously, increasing solid hits back to default yielded a ton of balls in the gaps for 2b's and plenty more over the fence. 7 of 12 runs by Tigers were via the HR (grrrr), 3 of 11 runs for Mariners were via the long ball (great!). I like the increase to the control and consistency sliders. Ball movement seemed more "realistic", as pitches weren't "floating" all over the place. BB's were still had by both sides, and strike %'s were right at MLB avg (great!). Both errors were IF throwing errors, and at least I finally saw some. Cpu bullpen mgt was good yet gain. With the lead they brought in top su guy in the 8th and cp in the 9th. Maybe I am chasing a purple unicorn w/ this "project". Though some things looked good (stat and gameplay wise), I hated how many balls were smoked to the gap. I need more singles!!!!! But I also need those singles to turn into runs that aren't because a guy launched one into orbit. However, what do we see every night on MLB Network.....exactly that and it sucks. Next game will be Col (me) traveling to Dodger Stadium. Marquez vs Buehler. I am going to use the same slider set up as this game to see if the offensive explosion happens for the 2nd straight game. Not everything is bad....I like how the pitching is shaking out for both sides in terms of control, I like the fielding, the arm strength, the base running speed, the sb's, caught stealings, pitcher stamina, control and strikeouts. I just need to see better distribution of hits, and not so many. I believe the cpu isn't affected by pitch speed, but after 3 more games with this slider set up, I might increase all pitch speeds to 6. I may just be having a tad too long to read pitches and it's resulting in a lot of hits and bb's, but I am striking out a lot so it's still hard for me. One thing I have noticed in these 4 games, is the cpu seems to mirror me, If I hit, so do they...if I don't hit, they don't either.....thats probably programming ,and if it is - that be very problematic.

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Old 08-26-2022, 10:20 AM   #21
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Re: Dowie's HOF Set: Clean Screen, Directional, Classic,

Quote:
Originally Posted by dowie
Game #5 of day #1 of the MLB season
Tigers at Mariners (me)
Mize vs Gilbert

DET 12 runs, 15 hits, 0 errors
SEA 11 runs, 14 hits, 2 errors

DET: 6 2b, 3 hr, 5bb, 10k .349 batting avg.
SEA: 5 2B, 2 hr, 3 bb, 14k, 1 hbp .341 batting avg.

DET: 176 pitches thrown, 62% strikes, 58% 1st pitch strikes
SEA: 170 pitches thrown, 64% strikes, 60% 1st pitch strikes

DET: 16% fouls, 20% swing and miss
SEA: 14% fouls, 40% swing and miss

Thoughts:
I played this game w/ some tweaks to the sliders "changed them on OP": (increased solid hits to 5 for both sides, increased control and consistency to 6 for both sides and increased all errors to 6. Stats aside, the goal is to have fun....well, this game wasn't fun -I like pitcher duels! Obviously, increasing solid hits back to default yielded a ton of balls in the gaps for 2b's and plenty more over the fence. 7 of 12 runs by Tigers were via the HR (grrrr), 3 of 11 runs for Mariners were via the long ball (great!). I like the increase to the control and consistency sliders. Ball movement seemed more "realistic", as pitches weren't "floating" all over the place. BB's were still had by both sides, and strike %'s were right at MLB avg (great!). Both errors were IF throwing errors, and at least I finally saw some. Cpu bullpen mgt was good yet gain. With the lead they brought in top su guy in the 8th and cp in the 9th. Maybe I am chasing a purple unicorn w/ this "project". Though some things looked good (stat and gameplay wise), I hated how many balls were smoked to the gap. I need more singles!!!!! But I also need those singles to turn into runs that aren't because a guy launched one into orbit. However, what do we see every night on MLB Network.....exactly that and it sucks. Next game will be Col (me) traveling to Dodger Stadium. Marquez vs Buehler. I am going to use the same slider set up as this game to see if the offensive explosion happens for the 2nd straight game. Not everything is bad....I like how the pitching is shaking out for both sides in terms of control, I like the fielding, the arm strength, the base running speed, the sb's, caught stealings, pitcher stamina, control and strikeouts. I just need to see better distribution of hits, and not so many. I believe the cpu isn't affected by pitch speed, but after 3 more games with this slider set up, I might increase all pitch speeds to 6. I may just be having a tad too long to read pitches and it's resulting in a lot of hits and bb's, but I am striking out a lot so it's still hard for me. One thing I have noticed in these 4 games, is the cpu seems to mirror me, If I hit, so do they...if I don't hit, they don't either.....thats probably programming ,and if it is - that be very problematic.

Dowie
This is a very sound assessment on the state of MLB 22. After playing it straight for 4 1/2 months, I finally walked away from my keeper franchise, 67 games deep, just a week ago; I've probably played 125+ games during this cycle. The root of the problem from this game comes in two areas, which are both correlated:

1. The lack of punch by the CPU at default. Play a game at default HOF and I can almost guaranteee the outcome. A 3-1 win with 6-7 hits apiece. A couple of months back, I played 20 consecutive games at default HOF, with different teams - the outcomes were consistent. In 16 of those games, I scored 3 runs with the CPU scoring no more than 2. Think about that for a minute. The other 4 had me scoring 4-5 runs with the CPU somewhre between 0-5. Not once did they score more than 5. The only time they beat me during that stretch, I intentionally left my SP out until he was literally out of gas. Where is the variety? Where is that 11-run inning? Where is the 5-4 score after the first inning?

2. The bandwidth of outcomes and game variety are limited, which is highlighted by my first point. This title simply doesn't hold the RPG aspect that it once did, which is largely an intentional move by SDS. After leaving behind MLB 22 for good, I went back to a personal favorite of mine - MLB 19. What a difference. I started a brand new franchise and immediately became immersed in it. My games are competitive simulation style games (like professional sports games should be), but you truly never know what you're going to get. This is much the opposite of 22, which is predicable and stale after a few games.

Interestingly, you strike a very good point, which culminates both of my points. There is definitely a mirror reaction in play between the HUM and the CPU, and this is noticeable when you adjust the sliders. For instance, play a few innings at default HOF. Then play that same few innings, only bumping up contact and/or power from 5 to 7, for the CPU only. Guess what? Not only does the CPU have more pop off the bat, but the human user does as well. This is not hyperbole. The sliders are no longer linear in The Show, which makes tuning this game a bear. It's the end of August, and many diehards of this series are still searching, tweaking, or have simply walked away. I also know that a few popular Twitch-OSers, have stated they would play the game more if it was better. They simply are not finding the enjoyment that they once did.

We all know that SDS has taken this title in a different direction. The idea was to move to the COD, quick hit style, online game. And I get it - that's what the younger generations like to play. My son is 12... he and his friends don't sit down to play every pitch / 162-game franchises. They are about the quick 3-inning online game, where you see 5 homers and 5 strikeouts to ultimately determine which online profile will become more decorative. That's what the appeal is now, and thus is where the money is. Since there is only one core engine for the game, it cannot truly function as both the competitive, load out, quick strike and a simulation style when playing offline. They can label different modes however they want to, but at the end of the day, the core is the same.

I cannot blame SDS for going this route. Unfortunately, this paradigm shift has left behind an entire community that has been all about creating a true RPG experience and simulation of the sport with MLB The Show.

"Play it your way, step up to new game modes, customize your team and player and control a deep RPG experience" -- this is on the back of the box on MLB The Show 19. The "deep RPG experience" is what The Show was all about. Was is the operative word.

Like you, I have tried many different combinations of setups to get the game to play it like it used to in past years. I have not found the secret sauce. But as we know, sliders and settings can only do so much. A game is what it is via it's DNA (it's code). A good slider set will only enhance an already good game.

It was hard for me to finally admit defeat. MLB 22 has done a phenomenal job at emulating the in-the-park experience. The visuals are stunning, the sounds are truly impressive - every little player detail stands out... from Zack Grenkie's quickly pitching motion to Chris Taylor's bat wobble. SDS nailed it. Not only did they nail sounds and visuals, they also nailed physics. The feel of the bat, the weight of the bat, the bounce of the ball - there hasn't been another sports game that has gotten close.

With all of that said, I knew from early on this game was going to be a problem. Because of the sex appeal, I couldn't let go until recently, even though I had long realized that the game itself is a snooze.

I give MLB The Show 22 a 9.8 rating for visuals and aesthetics, but only a 5.3 for gameplay, making the final rating a 7.5 for me. In contrast, I give MLB 20 a 9.3 and MLB 19 a 9.1, despite me preferring the latter.

Dowie: I wish you all the best, and I hope you can come up with something. Hell, I may even give it another go if you find a nice balance.
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Old 08-26-2022, 10:57 AM   #22
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Re: Dowie's HOF Set: Clean Screen, Directional, Classic,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Ren
This is a very sound assessment on the state of MLB 22. After playing it straight for 4 1/2 months, I finally walked away from my keeper franchise, 67 games deep, just a week ago; I've probably played 125+ games during this cycle. The root of the problem from this game comes in two areas, which are both correlated:

1. The lack of punch by the CPU at default. Play a game at default HOF and I can almost guaranteee the outcome. A 3-1 win with 6-7 hits apiece. A couple of months back, I played 20 consecutive games at default HOF, with different teams - the outcomes were consistent. In 16 of those games, I scored 3 runs with the CPU scoring no more than 2. Think about that for a minute. The other 4 had me scoring 4-5 runs with the CPU somewhre between 0-5. Not once did they score more than 5. The only time they beat me during that stretch, I intentionally left my SP out until he was literally out of gas. Where is the variety? Where is that 11-run inning? Where is the 5-4 score after the first inning?

2. The bandwidth of outcomes and game variety are limited, which is highlighted by my first point. This title simply doesn't hold the RPG aspect that it once did, which is largely an intentional move by SDS. After leaving behind MLB 22 for good, I went back to a personal favorite of mine - MLB 19. What a difference. I started a brand new franchise and immediately became immersed in it. My games are competitive simulation style games (like professional sports games should be), but you truly never know what you're going to get. This is much the opposite of 22, which is predicable and stale after a few games.

Interestingly, you strike a very good point, which culminates both of my points. There is definitely a mirror reaction in play between the HUM and the CPU, and this is noticeable when you adjust the sliders. For instance, play a few innings at default HOF. Then play that same few innings, only bumping up contact and/or power from 5 to 7, for the CPU only. Guess what? Not only does the CPU have more pop off the bat, but the human user does as well. This is not hyperbole. The sliders are no longer linear in The Show, which makes tuning this game a bear. It's the end of August, and many diehards of this series are still searching, tweaking, or have simply walked away. I also know that a few popular Twitch-OSers, have stated they would play the game more if it was better. They simply are not finding the enjoyment that they once did.

We all know that SDS has taken this title in a different direction. The idea was to move to the COD, quick hit style, online game. And I get it - that's what the younger generations like to play. My son is 12... he and his friends don't sit down to play every pitch / 162-game franchises. They are about the quick 3-inning online game, where you see 5 homers and 5 strikeouts to ultimately determine which online profile will become more decorative. That's what the appeal is now, and thus is where the money is. Since there is only one core engine for the game, it cannot truly function as both the competitive, load out, quick strike and a simulation style when playing offline. They can label different modes however they want to, but at the end of the day, the core is the same.

I cannot blame SDS for going this route. Unfortunately, this paradigm shift has left behind an entire community that has been all about creating a true RPG experience and simulation of the sport with MLB The Show.

"Play it your way, step up to new game modes, customize your team and player and control a deep RPG experience" -- this is on the back of the box on MLB The Show 19. The "deep RPG experience" is what The Show was all about. Was is the operative word.

Like you, I have tried many different combinations of setups to get the game to play it like it used to in past years. I have not found the secret sauce. But as we know, sliders and settings can only do so much. A game is what it is via it's DNA (it's code). A good slider set will only enhance an already good game.

It was hard for me to finally admit defeat. MLB 22 has done a phenomenal job at emulating the in-the-park experience. The visuals are stunning, the sounds are truly impressive - every little player detail stands out... from Zack Grenkie's quickly pitching motion to Chris Taylor's bat wobble. SDS nailed it. Not only did they nail sounds and visuals, they also nailed physics. The feel of the bat, the weight of the bat, the bounce of the ball - there hasn't been another sports game that has gotten close.

With all of that said, I knew from early on this game was going to be a problem. Because of the sex appeal, I couldn't let go until recently, even though I had long realized that the game itself is a snooze.

I give MLB The Show 22 a 9.8 rating for visuals and aesthetics, but only a 5.3 for gameplay, making the final rating a 7.5 for me. In contrast, I give MLB 20 a 9.3 and MLB 19 a 9.1, despite me preferring the latter.

Dowie: I wish you all the best, and I hope you can come up with something. Hell, I may even give it another go if you find a nice balance.
This right here was a helluva write-up, with great insight. I can't even begin to disagree or argue with any of it. Maybe I am a gluten for punishment, maybe I am frugal to a fault (paying $80 for 22 & wanting my $$$ worth) or maybe I am an eternal optimist who thinks there has to be a way to "fix" this game so it plays more like 19 or 20....a-lot also has to do w/ bluengold's AAA/AA stadium creations....they're just awesome, and I luv minor league ball (I live minutes from Round Rock Express/Dell Diamond).

Problem is, the majority of the people whose opinion I respect on here have all said pretty much what you just did, just in different words, so I know this prob won't work out (in a good way).

I know I am not a slider expert, nor am I some video game programming guru. This "project" was my one final attempt to be happy w/this game. Good news is, MLBTS 20 is always there for me, so it's not like it's MLBTS 22 or I can't play next-gen console baseball.

I am going to play out the rest of the day#1 matchups and provide write ups....hopefully I like what I see. So far, some of it's good, some of it's bad and none of it is just outright terrible.

I think you're right, this game is prob a C to C+ ( or a 7.5)...ugh!

Dowie
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Old 08-26-2022, 11:54 AM   #23
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Re: Dowie's HOF Set: Clean Screen, Directional, Classic,

Playing of HOF as Raider said results in 3-1 scores consistently. Allstar pitching difficulty is a must for this game to have any sort of variety. Depending on your skill level for pitching, you may need to raise cpu hitting sliders to get their offense where you want for the variety. Raising cpu hitting on HOF only results in hardly any strikeouts, but still the same low scoring with nearly all runs coming via homerun.

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Old 08-26-2022, 12:38 PM   #24
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Re: Dowie's HOF Set: Clean Screen, Directional, Classic,

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSalsa
Playing of HOF as Raider said results in 3-1 scores consistently. Allstar pitching difficulty is a must for this game to have any sort of variety. Depending on your skill level for pitching, you may need to raise cpu hitting sliders to get their offense where you want for the variety. Raising cpu hitting on HOF only results in hardly any strikeouts, but still the same low scoring with nearly all runs coming via homerun.

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Thanks 4 the insight Irish! You are one of the respected ones around here I was talking about. I played around with All Star + early on, just always been a HOF guy. Maybe (and you aren't the 1st to say it), HOF is "unplayable" this year?

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