Consensus on SP/RP stamina setting??

[DarthRambo]

This is the one setting that is different within every slider set I see. I always wondered why, of all the slider gurus and baseball stastical gurus we can't find a common agreement on these?

Regardless of your skill level, pitching interface you use, etc. These stamina settings will have the same exact affect on games played in any and all slider sets. Maybe, just maybe...this could be the thread where we can discuss and cone up with that "perfect" setting??

So, with what are your settings currently?
What SP pitch counts do you see with pitchers when you see the "getting tired" message? With stamina ratings in the 90s? 80s? And stamina ratings in the 70s?

And for RP, what are you noticing about pitch counts and IP?

Just wondering if a consensus could be had within the awesome community we have here at OS. Thanks!

[DarthRambo]

With SP/RP stamina set at 4/0, I got the "tired" message after pitch 78 with Joe Kelly of the Red Sox, who has a 68 stamina rating. Does that sound right? Seems legit to me but idlk how many pitches he can normally pitch effectively irl either.

[KBLover]

That seems low for Kelly since he has broken 110 in 2015 according to his baseball reference page. One of those was a terrible 5 2/3 IP outing where he walked 7 and gave up 6 runs. If that happened in The Show...but then 68 STA would seem low for that, too.

Does Durability impact duration again? I believe in older years Durability had that effect on pitchers. Not sure if that's still true.

I use 6 SP stamina and 4 RP stamina.

This is what usually see from a typical outing from them:

Damien Boeve, 98 STA, usually I get at least 100-105 from him before starting to tire. In long stretches without off days, that might drop to 95-100. With his stuff, I usually push him about 10-15 more if he's on. So max probably 110-120.

Chris Tillman, 87 STA, usually good for near 100 before tiring and then can reach 100 with some effectiveness. I'm probably pulling him after that. Long schedules could drop that to about 90. He tends to fall fast once he starts tiring. He's not a guy I can usually stretch even with his STA rating.

Clay Huff, 84 STA, another one that will fall fast once tired, perhaps partly due to him being a junkballer as it is. So command and movement are big for him and being tired impacts that. Usually around 90 pitches I feel "safe" with him. Beyond that, I'll let him go to about 105 max...but I'm watching him like a hawk with double-barrelled bullpen action. Fortunately, being a finesser - if he's on he can FLY through games. That 90 could be close to enough for a CG.

Luis Heredia, 88 STA, Heredia is interesting. Sometimes he tires far earlier than I would expect. I don't know what that's about. Sometimes he's wearing down after 70-75 pitches. Maybe it's the length of his innings as sometimes he can really labor. I try to push him because that's sometimes not enough to go through 5 innings, and I like to get at least 6 if possible, but 5 minimum, even in a poor outing if at all possible.

Moses Bartlett - 80 STA, knuckleballer so that might impact things. He's usually like Huff in that he can zip through games. If he doesn't - usually about 100 is about as far as I want to go with him.

Michael Mader - 76 STA, Wears down quickly if he has any kind of stressful innings. I usually get 70-75 pitches before he's tiring. Usually getting him after about 90-95 if he can keep it together that long.

Will Bullock - I think he's in the high 70's (in a game so I can't check roster). He's like Huff so it's hard to tell, but I'd say around 90 for him too.


For relievers, I usually get about 20 pitches before they are tiring. If they go that long, they won't be available the next day - maybe not two days depending on their STA. If I have to force them to play, I might get 10 pitches so the most I want to do that for is a batter or two...inning tops.

With 0 RP stamina...I couldn't take it. Guys tiring under 10 pitches from full energy...just seemed extreme. Could be I have primarily fictional pitchers with "creative" ratings for some of them so maybe for leagues that are mostly MLB guys, it might work. I don't know, it never struck me as realistic. I mean some guys have single-digit stamina...or like 12...

[DarthRambo]

So in a franchise, you start seeing guys tire quicker in a game because they just pitched 5 days ago? What about if they get 6 days rest? This is what I really want to understand about pitcher stamina settings. Do they have an affect on their stamina long term throughout a season? OR, as long as they have at least 5 days rest and are at "full energy" they can pitch longer in a game before tiring? This really makes a huge difference with RP who sometimes pitch 2 or 3 days straight.

Even with 68 stamina I thought the pitch count was a tad low for him to be tiring already, but with stamina at 68 that could be okay. I'm not editing ratings. I just want to have an idea what pitch counts I should be reaching at each "stamina rating scale" before seeing the "tired" message.

With what you posted of what you're seeing it seems like SP stamina at 6 is a nice "sweet spot" for that setting. For RP, again Idk how a 0 RP stamina setting affects them over time in a season but in game (at full energy) they are able to pitch 25-30 pitches no problem before tiring. I'd like to see that lowered to 20-25 max, right?

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by IrishSalsa

So in a franchise, you start seeing guys tire quicker in a game because they just pitched 5 days ago? What about if they get 6 days rest? This is what I really want to understand about pitcher stamina settings. Do they have an affect on their stamina long term throughout a season? OR, as long as they have at least 5 days rest and are at "full energy" they can pitch longer in a game before tiring? This really makes a huge difference with RP who sometimes pitch 2 or 3 days straight.

When I say long stretches without off days, I mean like sometimes my team will have 20+ games without any days off. Around the 12th or 13th day, guys aren't recovering to full energy (or start losing energy more quickly). Relievers in those situations, if they even get to recover to full energy (depends on how much I need to use them), they are going about 10-15 pitches before tiring.

I think that seems like a pretty good dynamic and I see the grind of a long stretch of schedule without it being crazy.

Now if I could give 5 days rest, that might help, since sometimes they aren't even at full in the usual 4 days rest at that point.

Quote: Originally Posted by IrishSalsa

Even with 68 stamina I thought the pitch count was a tad low for him to be tiring already, but with stamina at 68 that could be okay. I'm not editing ratings. I just want to have an idea what pitch counts I should be reaching at each "stamina rating scale" before seeing the "tired" message.

Yeah, 68 stamina I could see tiring that fast or maybe another 5-10 pitches.

Quote: Originally Posted by IrishSalsa

With what you posted of what you're seeing it seems like SP stamina at 6 is a nice "sweet spot" for that setting. For RP, again Idk how a 0 RP stamina setting affects them over time in a season but in game (at full energy) they are able to pitch 25-30 pitches no problem before tiring. I'd like to see that lowered to 20-25 max, right?

Maybe, but I don't think in single games because I play seasons. So I can't think just about what happens in one game.

So I can't really say if 25-30 is too many for any one-off game. I've seen pitch counts over 30 (look up Tazawa's 2015 outings in baseball reference, you'll see him approach 30 at times).

Now if a pitcher could do that constantly, like 4 straight days, without ill effects on a reliever's stamina (i.e. not one that rivals a SP's stamina rating), then that would be different. But I don't get that on 4 RP stamina. Like I mentioned, if I use a reliever 30 pitches, he's not available for at least a day. I think that's reasonable.

[KBLover]

In my game last night, Boeve went just over 100 pitches before tiring. I pushed him to around 110 through 8 innings. Had the bullpen warming behind him but didn't need it. His energy meter was almost gone. He might have made it to 120 before getting the "out of energy" message.

That was a good representation of what I usually get from him.

[DarthRambo]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

In my game last night, Boeve went just over 100 pitches before tiring. I pushed him to around 110 through 8 innings. Had the bullpen warming behind him but didn't need it. His energy meter was almost gone. He might have made it to 120 before getting the "out of energy" message. That was a good representation of what I usually get from him.

For 98 stamina that sounds reasonable and very realistic. 120 pitches or so for a CG is solid.

[Bobhead]

Just throwing it out there that user stamina actually would vary depending on the mechanic and pitching style. The stamina consumed by a pitch depends on the amount of "effort" chosen. This variance in effort, in turn, would depend on the type of person pitching, and how frequently he/she chooses to put max effort on a pitch.

Then there's also the mechanical factor, eg: choosing the effort is a lot easier on meter than it is on analog, and on pulse I don't think you can choose the effort at all, so the same person would see a different rate of stamina loss on each of those 3 pitching controls.

So if you feel like every slider set has a different setting for human stamina, it's for good reason. The correct setting can vary quite a bit.

Anyway, to not ramble any further, I have both human and CPU starter/reliever stamina set at 5/1. I actually feel default is fine for starters because they get tired right around the 90-100 pitch mark. They can go a little deeper if you really want, but that affects their stamina for future games, just like real life.

Relievers can go multiple innings in a pinch, but most of the time you'll find it's best to stop after one inning, or again, you risk disrupting future games.

IMO that's how it should be.