Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

[ltw0303cavs]

I am not saying that trade logic is perfect in the other 3 sport video games BUT because there are salary caps in the other 3 games it does narrow the variables. Really if Budgets worked as they should then in a way it would work like a salary cap. My main issue with the logic is it doesnt value team control on young players enough. The AI should never be offering Jackson Chourio, the Red Sox shouldn't be offering Roman Anthony AND you should be rejected on trades for those type players. The AI needs a value system and everything is calculated in that value system. Control, potential (which really needs to be redone) , performance etc.

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

8thHeck, trade logic cant even become closer to real MLB until there are at least 125 man rosters ( maybe even 150) and there are at least double the draft rounds. Those two things also even impact budget in addition too.

[tessl]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

Cardinals IRL traded Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen for Marcel Ozuna - and then failed to re-sign Ozuna. They ended up with a draft pick for two aces.

Cardinals traded Ernie Broglio for Lou Brock. Cardinals traded Steve Carlton for Rick Wise.

Teams make bad trades IRL. I use self imposed trade restrictions to restrict my ability to rip off the cpu but teams make bad trades.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

Cardinals IRL traded Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen for Marcel Ozuna - and then failed to re-sign Ozuna. They ended up with a draft pick for two aces.

Cardinals traded Ernie Broglio for Lou Brock. Cardinals traded Steve Carlton for Rick Wise.

Teams make bad trades IRL. I use self imposed trade restrictions to restrict my ability to rip off the cpu but teams make bad trades.

Reminds me of all of the bad Marlins trades over the years.

They traded Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for a bunch of crap, Cameron Maybin, and Andrew Miller. Can’t tell me that IRL teams won’t trade great young players in bad deals after seeing that putrid trade.

[EmpireWF]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

The Giants traded Zach Wheeler for two months of Carlos Beltran hoping he would help them make playoffs. They missed out on the post-season by four games. Beltran signed a FA deal with St. Louis that winter.

[gr18]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

Reminds me of all of the bad Marlins trades over the years.

They traded Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for a bunch of crap, Cameron Maybin, and Andrew Miller. Can’t tell me that IRL teams won’t trade great young players in bad deals after seeing that putrid trade.

Marlins traded Yelich to the Brewers for Lewis Brinson and a couple prospects that didn't amount to anything.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

Marlins traded Yelich to the Brewers for Lewis Brinson and a couple prospects that didn't amount to anything.

Stanton leaving for Starlin Castro and Rafael Devers cousin didn’t work out either. It’s amazing that they traded all 3 of their star outfielders and all they have to show for it is Alcantara. Even when they moved Gallen for Jazz, they got rid of him and got some ok prospects from the Marlins.

This thread is making me feel like the trade logic in this game isn’t too far off after all.

[ltw0303cavs]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

Cardinals IRL traded Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen for Marcel Ozuna - and then failed to re-sign Ozuna. They ended up with a draft pick for two aces.

Cardinals traded Ernie Broglio for Lou Brock. Cardinals traded Steve Carlton for Rick Wise.

Teams make bad trades IRL. I use self imposed trade restrictions to restrict my ability to rip off the cpu but teams make bad trades.

Agreed, Dansby Swanson was an overall number one pick and traded. However IRL bad trades are never at the volume than in The Show ? Also a lot of "bad trades" are determined after the fact. Cardinals traded Randy Arozarena for Liberatore for example. Also low budget teams shouldn't be trading for high payroll guys

[ltw0303cavs]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

I also think trade logic should be customizable ? Low revenue teams are more likely to hold onto prospects than Yankees, Dodgers etc

[kinsmen7]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

Agreed, Dansby Swanson was an overall number one pick and traded. However IRL bad trades are never at the volume than in The Show ? Also a lot of "bad trades" are determined after the fact. Cardinals traded Randy Arozarena for Liberatore for example. Also low budget teams shouldn't be trading for high payroll guys

I don't know...you can also just lower the trade slider to cut down on the amount of moves made.

As for low budget teams not trading for high payroll guys...I guess it really depends on how you want your league to evolve? The 2017 Padres had a payroll slightly about $67 Mil. By 2020, they had more than doubled that, getting to over $150 mil. I think they're around $211 mil now? I don't think it's inconceivable that smaller market teams would potentially add payroll.

Heck, even Tampa was reported to be involved with the Soto negotiations for a little bit.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

I don't know...you can also just lower the trade slider to cut down on the amount of moves made.

As for low budget teams not trading for high payroll guys...I guess it really depends on how you want your league to evolve? The 2017 Padres had a payroll slightly about $67 Mil. By 2020, they had more than doubled that, getting to over $150 mil. I think they're around $211 mil now? I don't think it's inconceivable that smaller market teams would potentially add payroll.

Heck, even Tampa was reported to be involved with the Soto negotiations for a little bit.

I usually lower the trade frequency down to like 2 clicks because I feel like I see too many trades. But haven’t seen too many crazy trades this year outside of a handful where a team was pushing for the playoffs. Way better than 24 where I saw both Elly and Witt get traded for useless middle relievers.

[CBoller1331]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

In general I think the value side of the trade logic is not too far off - at least it's not bad given the 3-player limits in the trade (I'd like to see that expanded). Most of the deals are, in a vacuum, "fair" trades. I feel like I haven't seen anyone get ripped off - at least not beyond anything that would happen IRL.

It's the situational side that is further behind, and to be fair I think that is harder to model/code than making sure both sides of the trade are of roughly equal value. The logic seems to weigh positional depth pretty heavily, which is why someone like Jackson Holliday was pretty obvious trade bait for the CPU Orioles last year as they saw him as "blocked" by Gunnar Henderson. It would be nice if prospect status was weighed a bit more heavily in game, as a consensus Top prospect like Holliday usually does not get traded.

The potentially encouraging thing for me, is that some of the newer things they've added to franchise mode - in particular the depth chart and in-game ticker, seem to hint at some improved trade logic. I've seen the ticker report that certain teams are shopping guys that I don't think were listed on the trade-block screen, and the depth chart screen would usually show Holliday as the projected starting 2B in year 2 - which seems to show there is some better logic in these newer aspects of the game, it's just a matter of applying it to the decision making of the CPU.

To me (a certified internet know-it-all with no game design experience) this sort of tracks with the theory that the franchise code is pretty old/hard to work with and that MtO is sort of a fresh playground where they have been able to test & flesh out some new franchise features.

[tessl]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

Agreed, Dansby Swanson was an overall number one pick and traded. However IRL bad trades are never at the volume than in The Show ? Also a lot of "bad trades" are determined after the fact. Cardinals traded Randy Arozarena for Liberatore for example. Also low budget teams shouldn't be trading for high payroll guys

I'm in CoMO. Saw Swanson play vs Missouri in college. Scouts all over the ballpark.

That trade ended LaRussa's short tenure in Arizona. #1 overall pick traded for Shelby Miller. He did that a few times in St Louis but the GM held him back. Pujols was considering quitting baseball until Bobby Bonilla got injured in spring training and Pujols made the opening day roster. Tony wanted the veterans on his team.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

In general I think the value side of the trade logic is not too far off - at least it's not bad given the 3-player limits in the trade (I'd like to see that expanded). Most of the deals are, in a vacuum, "fair" trades. I feel like I haven't seen anyone get ripped off - at least not beyond anything that would happen IRL.

It's the situational side that is further behind, and to be fair I think that is harder to model/code than making sure both sides of the trade are of roughly equal value. The logic seems to weigh positional depth pretty heavily, which is why someone like Jackson Holliday was pretty obvious trade bait for the CPU Orioles last year as they saw him as "blocked" by Gunnar Henderson. It would be nice if prospect status was weighed a bit more heavily in game, as a consensus Top prospect like Holliday usually does not get traded.

The potentially encouraging thing for me, is that some of the newer things they've added to franchise mode - in particular the depth chart and in-game ticker, seem to hint at some improved trade logic. I've seen the ticker report that certain teams are shopping guys that I don't think were listed on the trade-block screen, and the depth chart screen would usually show Holliday as the projected starting 2B in year 2 - which seems to show there is some better logic in these newer aspects of the game, it's just a matter of applying it to the decision making of the CPU.

To me (a certified internet know-it-all with no game design experience) this sort of tracks with the theory that the franchise code is pretty old/hard to work with and that MtO is sort of a fresh playground where they have been able to test & flesh out some new franchise features.

I think they’ll eventually figure that out. Other games like 2k and NHL do a decent job of it with their “team state” method where they have options around buying or selling. It’s not perfect either, but at the very least I think MLBTS can use what they have already to make sure they are either selling top players for top prospects or buying top players and giving away top prospects. It mostly works like that now but could definitely be tuned a bit.

[tessl]

Re: Trade Logic cant improve until they fix budgets

In general I think the value side of the trade logic is not too far off - at least it's not bad given the 3-player limits in the trade (I'd like to see that expanded). Most of the deals are, in a vacuum, "fair" trades. I feel like I haven't seen anyone get ripped off - at least not beyond anything that would happen IRL.

It's the situational side that is further behind, and to be fair I think that is harder to model/code than making sure both sides of the trade are of roughly equal value. The logic seems to weigh positional depth pretty heavily, which is why someone like Jackson Holliday was pretty obvious trade bait for the CPU Orioles last year as they saw him as "blocked" by Gunnar Henderson. It would be nice if prospect status was weighed a bit more heavily in game, as a consensus Top prospect like Holliday usually does not get traded.

The potentially encouraging thing for me, is that some of the newer things they've added to franchise mode - in particular the depth chart and in-game ticker, seem to hint at some improved trade logic. I've seen the ticker report that certain teams are shopping guys that I don't think were listed on the trade-block screen, and the depth chart screen would usually show Holliday as the projected starting 2B in year 2 - which seems to show there is some better logic in these newer aspects of the game, it's just a matter of applying it to the decision making of the CPU.

To me (a certified internet know-it-all with no game design experience) this sort of tracks with the theory that the franchise code is pretty old/hard to work with and that MtO is sort of a fresh playground where they have been able to test & flesh out some new franchise features.

I use self imposed trade restrictions involving the trading block, positions of need and a requirement for an even number of players on both team. I disagree that the CPU can't be ripped off in multi-player trades. I could do it easily if I wanted to and expanding to more than 3 player limits would make it easier to rip off the CPU.