"starting to struggle" message

[tessl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Knight165

Do you mean besides better and more interesting? M.K. Knight165

I'm not sure who would view this as better but there is an ancient Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times" so in that regard it could be interpreted as more interesting.

Want to hear an update? The pitcher I referenced in my original post is a generated player on the first live update roster, Anthony Hara. He just pitched a no hitter vs the Giants, the first no hitter I've seen in manage mode. It would have been a perfect game if not for an error on the second baseman.

He is a 23 year old rookie. For the season he is 7-7 with a 3.87 era, 1.18 whip - and his potential has declined because, due to changes in the AI I fail to comprehend, he is struggling.

[Knight165]

Quote: Originally Posted by tessl

I'm not sure who would view this as better but there is an ancient Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times" so in that regard it could be interpreted as more interesting. Want to hear an update? The pitcher I referenced in my original post is a generated player on the first live update roster, Anthony Hara. He just pitched a no hitter vs the Giants, the first no hitter I've seen in manage mode. It would have been a perfect game if not for an error on the second baseman. He is a 23 year old rookie. For the season he is 7-7 with a 3.87 era, 1.18 whip - and his potential has declined because, due to changes in the AI I fail to comprehend, he is struggling.

I would.
....and you are someone who can't see the forest for the trees(since we're going to throw cheesy old sayings here and there).....
You should be happy for the fact that a player doesn't have to be a top rated pitcher to perform at a high level all the time(instead of focusing on a 3 point potential drop from a time when he was pitching not so hot....his #'s are still mediocre/above mediocre IMO.....that at 74 to 71 didn't even drop his potential letter!).
That certainly hasn't always been the case in history...and there are tons of TOP rated pitchers who haven't thrown a no-hitter.

Here's another one for you.
You don't have to like it...you just have to deal with it(or not)

M.K.
Knight165

[tessl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Knight165

I would. ....and you are someone who can't see the forest for the trees(since we're going to throw cheesy old sayings here and there)..... You should be happy for the fact that a player doesn't have to be a top rated pitcher to perform at a high level all the time(instead of focusing on a 3 point potential drop from a time when he was pitching not so hot....his #'s are still mediocre/above mediocre IMO.....that at 74 to 71 didn't even drop his potential letter!). That certainly hasn't always been the case in history...and there are tons of TOP rated pitchers who haven't thrown a no-hitter. Here's another one for you. You don't have to like it...you just have to deal with it(or not) M.K. Knight165

I don't understand how it is better to have this lack of realism in the game. I have several other pitchers who are performing worse than this guy and they haven't dropped.

Our brains work differently. I prefer less randomness and more realism. I guess some people simply find realism boring.

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Quote: Originally Posted by tessl

I don't understand how it is better to have this lack of realism in the game. I have several other pitchers who are performing worse than this guy and they haven't dropped. Our brains work differently. I prefer less randomness and more realism. I guess some people simply find realism boring.

Do all top prospects that struggle in the minors in real life have their "ceiling" drop? Do all minor league players who get on a tear go from the 200 ranked prospect to #1?

If you want to believe it or not there is randomness is real life potential and player development. Hamilton was almost out of baseball twice in 2 different farm systems to later become an all star.

I think there needs to be some randomness, and to be honest I would like to see some bigger swings. As a Yankee fan I can think of top draft picks that have been drafted number 1 overall and never get out of A ball. What would his potential be as number 1 pick and top pitcher in the draft?

[canes21]

What exactly would realism be to you then? I understand how performance based progression isn't the most realistic form of it, yet is what is generally most common among sports games, but what exactly would be realistic? To me a realistic system is one that you are given an idea of a player's talents and he may or may not reach that potential, or he may even exceed it. That's how it is in real life. However, what should dictate the progression?

Obviously in real life I don't get better because I had a 3-4 game with 2 doubles and a triple. I get better through tons of BP, hitting of the tee, and just from pure experience. At the same time there are some guys I played with who went through the same exact routines as me and never got better and some even got worse, yet I was able to become better.

I think overall the game does a good job of having players reach their potentials while others are "busts' and others somehow find a way to decline at 24. It may base some of it off of game/season performances and that isn't exactly the most realistic, but at the same time, the overall system is acting realistic and that is what matters to me the most. I'm seeing guys who have A potential reach their potential and become every day starters. I'm seeing their teammates with A potential failing to progress and have minor league careers. I am seeing some guys I traded for with C potential actually rise to B potential and becoming good players and making my trade a steal in the later years.

To me that is realistic and I am happy with it. I mean Homer Bailey threw a couple good games last year, but he is still Homer Bailey. he didn't gain 3 MPH on his fastball after a no hitter or all of a sudden get the ability to pitch 20 more pitches per game. He is the same pitcher. So I think you are putting too much stock into just one month's progression. To me, the randomness is what is exciting and does make the system realistic. I think it is great you can find two AA pitchers who are the same age and have similar stats and you can follow them through the ranks and one may end up an MLB ace while the other struggles to become a team's 5th man. That's exactly how real life works and I love how the Show replicates it pretty well.

EDIT: Another thought that popped into my head. The overall rating doesn't also include the productivity of the player. It is the makeup of their physical skills and gives you an idea of what you should expect. There have been plenty of guys that have had average stuff in the MLB and have somehow just always made it work though and put up stats that they shouldn't have through their careers.

There have also been plenty of guys that just had every tool to become an 8 time all-star yet never put up good enough stats to be in the top 3 players on their own team. Baseball and sports in general have tons of randomness and that is what makes them exciting.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

EDIT: Another thought that popped into my head. The overall rating doesn't also include the productivity of the player. It is the makeup of their physical skills and gives you an idea of what you should expect. There have been plenty of guys that have had average stuff in the MLB and have somehow just always made it work though and put up stats that they shouldn't have through their careers.

I was just looking at Tom Glavine's career when I saw he made it to Canton. Average BB/9, average K/9, just doesn't seem to be anything that "jumps off the page" and he's in the Hall.

I don't know what his ratings would look like in The Show now, but I don't think he'd have an 80 in them, except maybe H/9, given how the game's system works.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by tabarnes19

Do all top prospects that struggle in the minors in real life have their "ceiling" drop? Do all minor league players who get on a tear go from the 200 ranked prospect to #1? If you want to believe it or not there is randomness is real life potential and player development. Hamilton was almost out of baseball twice in 2 different farm systems to later become an all star. I think there needs to be some randomness, and to be honest I would like to see some bigger swings. As a Yankee fan I can think of top draft picks that have been drafted number 1 overall and never get out of A ball. What would his potential be as number 1 pick and top pitcher in the draft?

I think that randomness should be based on more than a month-to-month (or less) of performance though. Heck, even a few months isn't really a large sample (we've seen guys start slow and take off, and vice versa).

That's one of the big issues I have with the system. That and injuries don't matter. One of the biggest risks to prospects (especially pitchers) is injuries. It's one reason some teams try to be "careful" with younger arms, etc.

That's one thing that can really sidetrack development and/or a timetable/ETA on a prospect. Tyler Kolek just had some back problems in real life - who knows what that might do to him. Will it peel off some MPH from his killer fastball? Slow down his development? Will the Marlins cut back on his playing time (and thus, on-field experience)? Will he come out unscathed and continue his progress?

Injuries do not seem to be a factor in the game's development system. No risk/worry needed over them. If my Kolek goes out for the year, I just can't use him, promote him, etc. I don't have to worry about him losing velocity, becoming more injury prone, etc.

A 3-point drop by itself doesn't always change a grade, they also pile up, especially if you get those notices within the month as well. The game has a love affair with Michael Feliz in my franchise - went from B to A-/borderline mid-A - April through June.

I guess you could say his stock is just rising fast (and ignore how the game is actually determining this from 2+ good months) but that seems pretty strange.

Also brings up how performance is evaluated. Is it just looking at ERA and BA or other things like ERC, dERA, and OPS (or other advanced stats that the game already tracks)? Is it comparing to the average stats at the level or produced by similar ratings? For example, if my 71 OVR pitcher is doing far worse than other 70's OVR pitchers at AAA, then my pitcher is up for a possible drop next evaluation? Or if my pitcher has a 60 H/9 in AAA but is allowing a .365 BABIP and 13 H/9, is he considered as struggling and might drop?

[Jr.]

Potential rating is editable. If it's really a big concern, just go in and set it back to what it was. Make adjustments based on what you feel is correct for your players.

There is no potential rating in real life. Guys aren't drafted with "B" potential. They are what they are. If their potential "raises" it's because they weren't scouted properly and they produced beyond what they were expected to, and vice versa.

I honestly feel as though this is one of the most accurate representations of an athlete's "potential" that I've seen in any video game I've played.