I think I finally figured out my problem with this game - ease of contact

[Acts 4 12]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobhead

I do agree Legend hitting feels a little more realistic and natural. I haven't had the time to really invest into making it work, though, so I've stuck to HOF for now. Eventually I'll figure out the sliders I need to change to get the offense how I want it on Legend, and I think I'll be pretty happy there. I don't agree, however, that cursor batting is necessary, or that the problems in this thread render the current "zone" system inferior or useless. I think the hitting engine is simply wayyyyyyyyyyy too lenient in regards to making contact, and then the entire system is scaled outwards to accommodate the leniency. If SCEA would just shrink the PCI and timing windows in half, on Legend, Hall of Fame and All-Star, I think the hitting system would immediately become more realistic. The physics still need a lot of work, especially with the line drives I've discussed to death... but I think the main problem that turns players off to the hitting system is that you're making contact on pitches you shouldn't be making contact on. Of course I am going to get unrealistic batted ball physics, and unrealistic at-bats, when I am literally making contact with the ball unrealistically.

Much respect to you Bobhead I've been reading your posts for years and always found them helpful. You just made some excellent points. I don't find zone batting useless at all it's just a matter of preference for everyone. Like I said I have learned to really appreciate zone hitting. On Legend the PCI becomes smaller and the more you adjust the batting sliders, the more I believe every individual can achieve what they're looking for.

[turty11]

most MLB guys have a contact rate of like 70-80% and quite a few in the 90s, its not unrealistic to not strikeout spam all over the place, just take more pitches

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobhead

If SCEA would just shrink the PCI and timing windows in half, on Legend, Hall of Fame and All-Star, I think the hitting system would immediately become more realistic.

As long as the PCI placement becomes logical for Timing hitting (and any other interface that doesn't give you command of the PCI), then this makes a lot of sense. As it is - wildly and purely random and illogical placement + smaller PCI on Timing hitting? Please, no.

Of course, I'm not having problems with seeing K's even with the existing system - probably because of the interface I'm using (though I've seen my guys miss on balls where the PCI *is* over the pitch location and my timing was "Normal" so...I don't know...if it's too lenient...what explains things like that?)

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by turty11

most MLB guys have a contact rate of like 70-80% and quite a few in the 90s, its not unrealistic to not strikeout spam all over the place, just take more pitches

Yep, Out of Zone contact ranges from 41 to 86% this year with In Zone contact ranging from 73 to 97% among qualified batters.

Biggest difference is in the ability to make contact out of the zone. That's where guys swing and miss more regularly, depending on ability of course.

With the existing system, I don't feel this happening. Again, maybe it's the nature of Timing hitting, but everyone just feels the same except at the very low VIS/CON combos without the very high VIS/CON really cutting down on swings and misses, as long as my timing is decent.

[nomo17k]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Yep, Out of Zone contact ranges from 41 to 86% this year with In Zone contact ranging from 73 to 97% among qualified batters. Biggest difference is in the ability to make contact out of the zone. That's where guys swing and miss more regularly, depending on ability of course. With the existing system, I don't feel this happening. Again, maybe it's the nature of Timing hitting, but everyone just feels the same except at the very low VIS/CON combos without the very high VIS/CON really cutting down on swings and misses, as long as my timing is decent.

I think the statement that everyone (i.e., every CPU-controlled hitter, including user-controlled hitter with timing interface) is probably true. I remember Brian@SCEA mentioning, when you vary difficulty level, how the difference between hitters are mostly introduced through batting attributes like Contact and Vision (which basically vary PCI size), but AI itself doesn't change much. Though I'm not sure if that statement applies to the variation in the ability of individual hitters at a specific difficulty level, but it's not unreasonable to imagine that the implementation is similar.

I personally hope this to be improved by introducing multiple AI tendencies, i.e., letting players have different "brains" that behave differently based on their preferred approach. Even just for PCI movement, a hitter can choose to be rather static in his approach by putting it in the middle of the strike zone most of the time and look only for mistake pitch (i.e., a very patient hitter) or he can try to react to every pitch by moving PCI to that location (i.e., a hacker).

With the current game, playing against CPU, I do feel every CPU-controlled player tends to respond similarly, and while that's not necessarily a bad thing in a game (after all, each gamer controls all players), when we see a weird tendency we get stuck with it.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by nomo17k

I remember Brian@SCEA mentioning, when you vary difficulty level, how the difference between hitters are mostly introduced through batting attributes like Contact and Vision (which basically vary PCI size), but AI itself doesn't change much. Though I'm not sure if that statement applies to the variation in the ability of individual hitters at a specific difficulty level, but it's not unreasonable to imagine that the implementation is similar.

I wonder if it's a "blanket" +/- based on difficulty. Like if I go from A-S to HoF, I'm losing X on all my hitters CON/VIS/DIS. Likewise by pitching on HoF, the CPU hitters all get a "blanket" gain to those ratings.

If that is true, that would help explain what I see. By being on HoF, I'm basically nerfing my own contract hitters, turning them into average contact % guys when they should be among the better end, if not top end (guys with high CON/VIS, for example).

This makes me wonder, assuming the premise is true, what difficulty level imposes none of that. I.E. ratings listed are the ratings used? I assume the default Contact slider would be a given. Would that be Veteran (the shipped default difficulty)? Perhaps All-Star?

Likewise, are there any known "equivalencies"? For example, if Veteran/5 Contact is the "WYSIWYG" for the hitter ratings, what would the equivalent be on, say, HoF? Things like that?

Quote: Originally Posted by nomo17k

I personally hope this to be improved by introducing multiple AI tendencies, i.e., letting players have different "brains" that behave differently based on their preferred approach. Even just for PCI movement, a hitter can choose to be rather static in his approach by putting it in the middle of the strike zone most of the time and look only for mistake pitch (i.e., a very patient hitter) or he can try to react to every pitch by moving PCI to that location (i.e., a hacker).

Would love to see this!

[NDAlum]

I don't have an issue because I use Timing. When I went to Zone I rarely struck out.

In 104 games I've K'd 124 times with Pedro Alvarez lol

Believe it or not he's hitting .288 with 25 HR's and slugging .559...

BABIP must be like .450

[Padgoi]

Yeah, this issue is definitely for Zone hitting, not Timed hitting. I can't get into Timed hitting, I feel like I have no control over the results, it's all ratings based and that just bothers me. Why play if I can't control where I'm swinging?

Anyway, I think Bob nailed it. Making contact is just way too easy. NOT solid contact. Just making contact in general on pitches where your PCI is nowhere near the ball. This in turn allows for few strikeouts and also even less good solid contact.

And for anyone who's tried my sliders, I play on HoF difficulty, pitch speed currently at 9.