Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

[cardinalbird5]

I know on the livestreams they were saying playing a player out of position caused them to have a 40 pct decrease in fielding attributes, but what about just simply secondary positions? Is it the same as primary or is there a minor penalty for doing so?

Also what about SS's going to 2b or 3b? I feel like there should be no penalty for this but is there in the game? I mean most SS's have superior fielding so even if they take a hit in defense they will still be better than most 2b's defensively....

[torpidbeaver]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

Don't know if it's still true, or even if it was true at the time, but I remember reading that secondary positions got a 20% deduction on their defensive abilities, and a 40% deduction for completely out of position.

[Bobhead]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

Don't know if it's still true, or even if it was true at the time, but I remember reading that secondary positions got a 20% deduction on their defensive abilities, and a 40% deduction for completely out of position.

I thought it was like 10/30 but yeah... something like that. It was said by a dev, so it was definitely true at some point.

No idea if it's still true, but I'd guess it still is.

[Russell_SCEA]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

Don't know if it's still true, or even if it was true at the time, but I remember reading that secondary positions got a 20% deduction on their defensive abilities, and a 40% deduction for completely out of position.

Winner winner chicken dinner

[HopiDesertPriest]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

Winner winner chicken dinner

ramone, sir:


batting average with runners-in-scoring-position when simulating cpu vs cpu games is broken again. It was broken for years, until last year when it was fixed. I beg of thee, to fix this in Patch #1 : )


* I PRAISE THEE, BROTHER RAMONE RUSSELL *

[seanjeezy]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

On the topic of secondary positions, in previous years we were allowed to change primary positions and keep the unique secondary combos. This year, changing the primary position erases and secondary positions. Is this intentional or a bug?

[Russell_SCEA]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

On the topic of secondary positions, in previous years we were allowed to change primary positions and keep the unique secondary combos. This year, changing the primary position erases and secondary positions. Is this intentional or a bug?

That sounds like a bug please fill out a bug report on that.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

This was some valuable information to know, especially for DD and chise.

It it all fielding attributes like reaction, fielding, arm str, arm acc or just fielding that take a hit?

[Madden's Jowels]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

Winner winner chicken dinner

Ramone,

does this include for example, playing a right fielder as a left fielder, or vice versa. Playing a CF in a corner spot? Or playing someone down on the defensive spectrum? For example, a SS at 2B?

A SS should actually be BETTER defensively at 2B, it's an easier position. Teams move SS to 2B all the time, look at Baez, look at Profar. It wouldn't make any sense to me at all to drop ratings in this manner.

What about taking a corner outfielder, who isn't a good fielder and putting him at first base? Or moving a catcher to first base? these are all common things done to HELP a player defensively. Move them down the spectrum to an easier position, so you can still use their bat but not have such a liability.

IMO a ratings decrease should only occur if you play someone UP the defensive spectrum.

[PittPens1787]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

Ramone,

does this include for example, playing a right fielder as a left fielder, or vice versa. Playing a CF in a corner spot? Or playing someone down on the defensive spectrum? For example, a SS at 2B?

A SS should actually be BETTER defensively at 2B, it's an easier position. Teams move SS to 2B all the time, look at Baez, look at Profar. It wouldn't make any sense to me at all to drop ratings in this manner.

What about taking a corner outfielder, who isn't a good fielder and putting him at first base? Or moving a catcher to first base? these are all common things done to HELP a player defensively. Move them down the spectrum to an easier position, so you can still use their bat but not have such a liability.

IMO a ratings decrease should only occur if you play someone UP the defensive spectrum.

I get the thought process here and I generally agree with it. What I think they should do is implement some sort of familiarity system.

A guy who has been groomed as a SS in his years before the MLB is going to have a bit of a learning period if he moves to 2B. Same goes for a guy who was a CF and moves to a corner spot, etc. The guy may be a fantastic defender moving to an easier position, but he's still going to have a period of time where he is unfamiliar with the vantage point of a different position, routes to balls, shorter throws to 1B, etc etc.

I think some sort of familiarity system would be best and I have 2 ideas:

1) After playing XX games at a position, it becomes a player's primary position. This would apply mostly to franchise mode. Or

2) Assign ratings to each position for every player. A guy who can play 2B or SS equally could have 99/100 ratings for both positions, then maybe a 65 at 3B if he has some experience there. Use these positional ratings as modifier values for their defensive ratings. In franchise mode, maybe for every XX innings a guy plays at 2B, he receives a point in his 2B rating. Eventually 2B could become his primary position if he plays there enough. This would eliminate the need for a flat 20% or 40% reduction in a player's skills for playing a position he is familiar with, just because his primary position is listed as something else.

I think the 2nd option would be a great feature.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

Yeah as a player who played both..
SS and 2B are a different breed.
There should be a small learning curve... more for other positions.

[Madden's Jowels]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

2) Assign ratings to each position for every player. A guy who can play 2B or SS equally could have 99/100 ratings for both positions, then maybe a 65 at 3B if he has some experience there. Use these positional ratings as modifier values for their defensive ratings. In franchise mode, maybe for every XX innings a guy plays at 2B, he receives a point in his 2B rating. Eventually 2B could become his primary position if he plays there enough. This would eliminate the need for a flat 20% or 40% reduction in a player's skills for playing a position he is familiar with, just because his primary position is listed as something else.

I think the 2nd option would be a great feature.

I'd be down for that (having a rating at each position). I'm mainly concerned with Diamond Dynasty. In franchise I can just change a guy's default position if I need to. In diamond dynasty if I want to play Adam Eaton in right field instead of center because he's my strongest OF arm and I have a better fielder to play in center, I feel it's ridiculous he'd take a 20% hit. Learning curve, ehh sure, but these DD games take place in a vacuum, not over the course of a season where actual time passes and they can improve with number of games played. I think a 5% learning curve to move from CF to a corner would be reasonable. Now if we're talking playing a corner outfielder at 3rd base or something random like that (my buddy says he's playing Jason Heyward at 3B and he's doing great, actually), I think 20% is totally reasonable.

40% seems high for pretty much any conversion, other than trying to play a first baseman at shorstop or something lol. And even then, the ratings should probably just take care of themselves. Your typical first baseman is going to be slow with poor reaction times, and most of them have fielding ratings around 60 with weak arms, save for a few guys. So if you put that guy at short, he's going to suck regardless, he probably doesn't need an extra 40% of suck on top of that lol.

[cusefan74]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

Ramone,

does this include for example, playing a right fielder as a left fielder, or vice versa. Playing a CF in a corner spot? Or playing someone down on the defensive spectrum? For example, a SS at 2B?

A SS should actually be BETTER defensively at 2B, it's an easier position. Teams move SS to 2B all the time, look at Baez, look at Profar. It wouldn't make any sense to me at all to drop ratings in this manner.

What about taking a corner outfielder, who isn't a good fielder and putting him at first base? Or moving a catcher to first base? these are all common things done to HELP a player defensively. Move them down the spectrum to an easier position, so you can still use their bat but not have such a liability.

IMO a ratings decrease should only occur if you play someone UP the defensive spectrum.

That's wrong! If you move a guy into a position he has never played before there has to be a decrease in ratings. Even if it's catcher to first base. You put a guy that's been catching for his whole life and then move him to first, there are a lot of new things to learn. That's why when they do move players like that they take their time doing it.

[Kevin82485]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

Just my thoughts, but I feel like the attribute decrease should be dynamic and also based on what their secondary position is.

Like if you play a catcher who has no secondary postion at SS, his attribute decrease should be more than if he played at 1B. The attribute decrease shouldn't be the same. 1B is a more logical position change for a catcher. A catcher with no secondary position playing at SS should be like a 60% decrease and 1B would be like 30%. If he plays 2B it's 60%, CF 60%, LF 55%, RF 50%, 3B 40%.

If his secondary is 1B, the decrease is 15-20%, and all other positions would be the same decrease as I already said.

I think a SS should have less of a penalty playing at other positions. A SS's attribute decreases while playing out of position should be less than a catcher playing out of position.

So if a SS with no secondary plays a 2B it is a 25% decrease, 3B 30%, 1B 35%, LF 45%, CF 50%, RF 40%, C 60%.

Like I said, just my thoughts and there is probably room for argument, the percentages are just arbitrary to try to explain my point, but I think it makes more sense than a blanket attribute decrease of 40% for playing out of position.

[JTommy67]

Re: Does playing players at their secondary position cause an attribute deduction?

I wonder if arm strength suffers the same percentage hit as other fielding attributes? Doesn't seem to me like it should.