Breaking pitches.

[NDAlum]

Here's the big point...

There should be an invisible line going straight down from the ball and a RHP throwing a 12-6 curve should never have the ball end up to the right of 6. It could definitely have some variation from 6-9 based on a pitcher's overall mechanics.

It's literally not possible for a curve ball to go arm side. It's physics. Please everyone understand this...

[ktd1976]

Quote: Originally Posted by NDAlum

Here's the big point... There should be an invisible line going straight down from the ball and a RHP throwing a 12-6 curve should never have the ball end up to the right of 6. It could definitely have some variation from 6-9 based on a pitcher's overall mechanics. It's literally not possible for a curve ball to go arm side. It's physics. Please everyone understand this...

Unless the release point is off, or the arm slot is off (causing the spin you intend to put on the ball to be wrong, or "off")

I mean no offense, but I think what you should say is that a curve ball thrown correctly will never break arm side. But if something in the mechanics is "off" it very well can (and does) break arm side.

But, this isn't intended, and can usually not be duplicated intentionally.

Basically, what I am saying, is a pitcher can intend to throw a curve ball, with a curve ball grip, and mess something up in the delivery/release point/wrist/arm action, that causes the pitch to break in an unintended way, INCLUDING arm side.

[JTommy67]

Aside from the impossible break issue being discussed here, I don't like this feature. Not because I don't think there is any variation in breaking balls, but because we can see beforehand the break of the pitch, as if the pitcher was going to try to replicate that particular break.

If normal variance is what they're going for, then they should draw the break the same every time and include the break variance in an unpredictable way the same way they do with accuracy.

Either that or let us choose the break, but I don't think that's what they're going for.

[RyanWreck]

Quote: Originally Posted by NDAlum

Here's the big point... There should be an invisible line going straight down from the ball and a RHP throwing a 12-6 curve should never have the ball end up to the right of 6. It could definitely have some variation from 6-9 based on a pitcher's overall mechanics. It's literally not possible for a curve ball to go arm side. It's physics. Please everyone understand this...

Yup. You can't take any variation of the curveball grip (except the screwball grip, obviously) and get armside, screwball run accidentally. The grip, the pronation, the snapping of the wrist counterclockwise can't just happen. A RHP, while standing directly forward towards home plate, would have to point his throwing elbow towards first base and reach across his body and then twist his elbow and wrist completely 180 back towards 3rd base. It would be great for an interpretive dance routine but in a baseball game it would be ridiculous and the ball would probably end up bouncing in front of 3rd base. I'd fall over if I tried it. The Magnus force will always move in the same direction that the front of the ball is spinning towards, and the seams pull on the airflow making a wake of air behind and around the side of the ball to push the ball to the side its spinning against. That's why most 4 seam fastballs have slight run, not too many pitchers throw one perfectly over top spinning straight down (Collmenter does because he has an over the top arm angle, but even pitchfx calls his FB a cutter because it is so on top) rather they rotate it from 1-7 o'clock and in turn it runs 11-5.

It's a bit weird because the Show has always been very, very good with pitches so it's just odd that they did this.

You know what this would actually work good for? A forkball. A Forkball is a slip pitch (fingers on leather rather than on seams) and thus has similar "rotation" as a knuckleball but always going downwards like a splitter that could run one time then could cut a little the next time it is thrown or could just go straight down.

[ktd1976]

Quote: Originally Posted by RyanWreck

Yup. You can't take any variation of the curveball grip (except the screwball grip, obviously) and get armside, screwball run accidentally. The grip, the pronation, the snapping of the wrist counterclockwise can't just happen. The Magnus force will always move in the same direction that the front of the ball is spinning towards, and the seams pull on the airflow making a wake of air behind and around the side of the ball to push the ball to the side its spinning against. That's why most 4 seam fastballs have slight run, not too many pitchers throw one perfectly over top spinning straight down (Collmenter does because he has an over the top arm angle, but even pitchfx calls his FB a cutter because it is so on top) rather they rotate it from 1-7 o'clock and in turn it runs 11-5.

Not quite true. A true 12-6 curve ball is thrown from a completely overhead (not 3/4ths) arm slot. Which is why most pitchers who throw with a 3/4ths arm slot cannot throw a 12-6 curve ball.

Now, you are correct in saying that a correctly thrown curve ball will never break arm side. FACT. A 12-6 curveball thrown from an overhead arm slot will break DOWN, and maybe have a very minimal horizontal break. If that arm slot is off just a tad, that horizontal break becomes more pronounced (hence why a curve from a 3/4ths slot breaks more horizontally.)

Now, imagine an overhead pitcher missing his arm slot by a touch to the non throwing side, (it is rare, but it can happen) but putting the same spin on the ball. Because of the difference in arm slot, the ball will appear to break to the pitching arm side. It is very RARE, but not impossible.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by JTommy67

Not because I don't think there is any variation in breaking balls, but because we can see beforehand the break of the pitch, as if the pitcher was going to try to replicate that particular break.

Yeah - I agree with this.

I shouldn't know before I throw the pitch if my breaking stuff will act "funny" or not.

[ktd1976]

Also, another point to point out, not ALL curve balls are thrown with a twist of the rist (imagine turning a doorknob). Doug Fister doesn't use this wrist twist when throwing his curve.

http://betterpitching.com/doug-fiste...gue-curveball/

[NDAlum]

Please show me one video showing a curve ball that breaks arm side. That Fister curve is beautiful, but not even a 12-6.