Most realistic hitting mode

[DickDalewood]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

Analog Stride all day.

[DickDalewood]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

You don't "aim" your swing when you swing. When have you ever thought oh I gotta swing high before or during your swing? You haven't cause if you did you would never catch up to the ball.

Full stride analog on Directional is more what is described. You still have to time up the stride, you can still decide influence, and you can still go with the pitch by influencing the right stick when you swing.

I agree with this. Zone is not how our brains think when swinging a bat. Where we swing is automatic based on how we interpret what we see. It's not a manual process which is exactly what zone is.

I suppose it's all opinion but having to "aim" the bat is not a realistic depiction of real life. In my own opinion of course.

[fanofbaseball]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I agree with this. Zone is not how our brains think when swinging a bat. Where we swing is automatic based on how we interpret what we see. It's not a manual process which is exactly what zone is.

I suppose it's all opinion but having to "aim" the bat is not a realistic depiction of real life. In my own opinion of course.

Assuming an individual is playing at an advanced level and somewhat proficient, I agree that the hitter is, generally, not cognizant of aiming during the swing, but that doesn't mean aiming isn't a component of the swing. A proficient hitter has developed the ability to aim without thinking due to repetition, which most commonly begins between the ages of 4-7.

When an individual is hitting well, they also are not thinking about other mechanical aspects of their swing, which have been honed to muscle memory through repetition. But that doesn't mean mechanics don't exists. When hitters go into slumps, they most certainly become aware of mechanics, including those mechanics related to aiming.

Several years back I saw a video break down of ARods swing during a slump. His issue boiled down to mechanical issues directly related to the aiming portion of the swing. He was flexing his lead hand up which caused the bat to leave the desired swing plane, resulting in repeatedly rolling over pitches.

My point, aiming is absolutely a part of real hitting. And I believe the more complex the video game hitting mechanism is the more realistic it is. As such I don't see any basis from which the claim can be made that directional is more realistic, other than the results are completely manufactured to produce specific statistical outcomes.

directional = timing
zone = timing + aiming

From my baseball experience, I would say neither approaches the difficulty of actually hitting a baseball, but zone includes more complexity and thus must be more accurate.

[HighCmpPct]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

Assuming an individual is playing at an advanced level and somewhat proficient, I agree that the hitter is, generally, not cognizant of aiming during the swing, but that doesn't mean aiming isn't a component of the swing. A proficient hitter has developed the ability to aim without thinking due to repetition, which most commonly begins between the ages of 4-7.

When an individual is hitting well, they also are not thinking about other mechanical aspects of their swing, which have been honed to muscle memory through repetition. But that doesn't mean mechanics don't exists. When hitters go into slumps, they most certainly become aware of mechanics, including those mechanics related to aiming.

Several years back I saw a video break down of ARods swing during a slump. His issue boiled down to mechanical issues directly related to the aiming portion of the swing. He was flexing his lead hand up which caused the bat to leave the desired swing plane, resulting in repeatedly rolling over pitches.

My point, aiming is absolutely a part of real hitting. And I believe the more complex the video game hitting mechanism is the more realistic it is. As such I don't see any basis from which the claim can be made that directional is more realistic, other than the results are completely manufactured to produce specific statistical outcomes.

directional = timing
zone = timing + aiming

From my baseball experience, I would say neither approaches the difficulty of actually hitting a baseball, but zone includes more complexity and thus must be more accurate.

I like what you're saying and mostly agree with it.

However one thing I want to point out is I'm not saying straight directional is the most like swinging the bat. I'm saying that the directional interface with the analog stride input is.

Here me out, yes it is exactly what you said we "aim" but do so without thinking and we don't aim before we start our swing. This is why directional with analog stride is more realistic. I'll try breaking it down again.

You have the ability to decide to try and influence which way you want to hit the ball before the pitch. This is a big component.

You also have to time your stride and get in a good position to hit the ball, not to mention the motion of the stick is more like swinging than pressing the button.

And finally and perhaps the biggest reason this is most representative of swinging the bat. You don't "aim" before swinging, you set your stride in motion by pulling back on the stick, (a la getting your hands in position) then you start your momentum moving forward by pushing up on the stick, finally you can either break it off and try and check it, or you decide to swing and use the stick to go with the pitch (or "aim) as you actually swing.

To use your example of I may.

Directional (buttons) = influence + timing

Zone = timing + aiming

Directional (analog/stride) = influence + timing + swinging to the ball

This is most representative of swinging the bat. And I don't want people to think I'm biased as this is not the method I use to hit with. I use straight Directional with the buttons because I want my team building to mean the most it can and I want my players ratings to be the biggest decider in my outcomes not my great stick skills.

[fanofbaseball]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I like what you're saying and mostly agree with it.

However one thing I want to point out is I'm not saying straight directional is the most like swinging the bat. I'm saying that the directional interface with the analog stride input is.

Here me out, yes it is exactly what you said we "aim" but do so without thinking and we don't aim before we start our swing. This is why directional with analog stride is more realistic. I'll try breaking it down again.

You have the ability to decide to try and influence which way you want to hit the ball before the pitch. This is a big component.

You also have to time your stride and get in a good position to hit the ball, not to mention the motion of the stick is more like swinging than pressing the button.

And finally and perhaps the biggest reason this is most representative of swinging the bat. You don't "aim" before swinging, you set your stride in motion by pulling back on the stick, (a la getting your hands in position) then you start your momentum moving forward by pushing up on the stick, finally you can either break it off and try and check it, or you decide to swing and use the stick to go with the pitch (or "aim) as you actually swing.

To use your example of I may.

Directional (buttons) = influence + timing

Zone = timing + aiming

Directional (analog/stride) = influence + timing + swinging to the ball

This is most representative of swinging the bat. And I don't want people to think I'm biased as this is not the method I use to hit with. I use straight Directional with the buttons because I want my team building to mean the most it can and I want my players ratings to be the biggest decider in my outcomes not my great stick skills.

And we continue to disagree ...I would say the zone with analogue stride is the most like swinging a bat, at least as it existed several years back. I'm not sure if it is still in the game or not, but it functioned much like you stated but included the greater difficulty of moving the PCI rather than a button push. I never (very rarely) used it because I simply didn't have the time to become proficient enough at it to still enjoy the game. But I do identify it as the most realistic input mechanism.

Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly, but I'm reading as though you think zone hitters place the PCI in a predetermined location and don't move it. While some might play that way, that is not the way I and many others play. There are scenarios where I'm expecting a pitch in a specific location and will preset the PCI in that approximate location, but most commonly I start up in the zone to the the throwing hand side and move the PCI with the pitch. Essentially the PCI operates as a visual representation of my eye movement with the pitch.

[HighCmpPct]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

And we continue to disagree ...I would say the zone with analogue stride is the most like swinging a bat, at least as it existed several years back. I'm not sure if it is still in the game or not, but it functioned much like you stated but included the greater difficulty of moving the PCI rather than a button push. I never (very rarely) used it because I simply didn't have the time to become proficient enough at it to still enjoy the game. But I do identify it as the most realistic input mechanism.

Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly, but I'm reading as though you think zone hitters place the PCI in a predetermined location and don't move it. While some might play that way, that is not the way I and many others play. There are scenarios where I'm expecting a pitch in a specific location and will preset the PCI in that approximate location, but most commonly I start up in the zone to the the throwing hand side and move the PCI with the pitch. Essentially the PCI operates as a visual representation of my eye movement with the pitch.

No I don't think you have it placed before hand I know you aim it as the ball is coming.

The reason this is not realistic is that if you aimed like that irl you could never ever hit a fastball.

What I'm saying is if your swinging with analog you have to angle the stick to where the ball is AS you're swinging to be using the interface correctly. This is essentially the same as "aiming" but in a way that is way more similar to swinging a bat because you have to start your stride, then start your swing then "aim" after your swing is in motion.

[fanofbaseball]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

No I don't think you have it placed before hand I know you aim it as the ball is coming.

The reason this is not realistic is that if you aimed like that irl you could never ever hit a fastball.

What I'm saying is if your swinging with analog you have to angle the stick to where the ball is AS you're swinging to be using the interface correctly. This is essentially the same as "aiming" but in a way that is way more similar to swinging a bat because you have to start your stride, then start your swing then "aim" after your swing is in motion.

I maintain the old zone plus analogue stride is the most realistic, but I do acknowledge the credibility of the directional plus analogue interface as a respectable replacement for the actual swing.

I want realistic stats and attributes to play role and I know you feel the same. We clearly diverge after that point, but that divergence appears to be related in how each of us wants to experience the game.

I have no intention of engaging in a continual pissing match. Having utilized both interfaces, my position is that zone and directional are equivalent from a results standpoint (the devs have ensured it). Unfortunately, and unwarranted, there is a continual flame war on these forums. Play a season of franchise with directional and repeat with zone and you will find the stats are pretty much the same.

Both zone and directional have their benefits and drawbacks in H2H. I personally would prefer all H2H match ups to be zone related to ensure the outcome is human rather than attribute based, but I also recognize the differences will even themselves out over time.

Using directional you often fail due to attributes rather than user input. Using zone you hit some tough pitches and overcome some attribute deficiencies, but likewise miss good pitches and lose out on attribute advantages due to user error. Results are overall much the same. It comes down to how you want to experience the game. My preference is that I want my successes to be my successes and my failures to be my failures, with attributes making it more difficult or easier. I find no satisfaction hitting a home run when my input warranted a routine popup and I likewise grow unhappy when my should be moonshot turns into a routine popup.

[HighCmpPct]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I maintain the old zone plus analogue stride is the most realistic, but I do acknowledge the credibility of the directional plus analogue interface as a respectable replacement for the actual swing.

I want realistic stats and attributes to play role and I know you feel the same. We clearly diverge after that point, but that divergence appears to be related in how each of us wants to experience the game.

I have no intention of engaging in a continual pissing match. Having utilized both interfaces, my position is that zone and directional are equivalent from a results standpoint (the devs have ensured it). Unfortunately, and unwarranted, there is a continual flame war on these forums. Play a season of franchise with directional and repeat with zone and you will find the stats are pretty much the same.

Both zone and directional have their benefits and drawbacks in H2H. I personally would prefer all H2H match ups to be zone related to ensure the outcome is human rather than attribute based, but I also recognize the differences will even themselves out over time.

Using directional you often fail due to attributes rather than user input. Using zone you hit some tough pitches and overcome some attribute deficiencies, but likewise miss good pitches and lose out on attribute advantages due to user error. Results are overall much the same. It comes down to how you want to experience the game. My preference is that I want my successes to be my successes and my failures to be my failures, with attributes making it more difficult or easier. I find no satisfaction hitting a home run when my input warranted a routine popup and I likewise grow unhappy when my should be moonshot turns into a routine popup.

That is definitely your right here to have that opinion. Personally I prefer to have the game simulate my players instead of me. Now when it comes to RTTS I prefer them to be more my successes and my failures but what I want out of franchise is as true a simulation to what you see the players do on the field while still having some input.

[fanofbaseball]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

That is definitely your right here to have that opinion. Personally I prefer to have the game simulate my players instead of me. Now when it comes to RTTS I prefer them to be more my successes and my failures but what I want out of franchise is as true a simulation to what you see the players do on the field while still having some input.

I'm very much interested in understanding as to why you take that position.

I desire realistic stats and want attributes to play a meaningful role, which places me alongside the "purists" on this forum. However, I seem to be on another planet when it comes to discussions regarding how those results are achieved.

I fail to understand why it is an either or argument regarding user input and attributes. Is it impossible to produce realistic outcomes through the combination of attributes and user input? If it is impossible, why are the "purists" engaging in a console video game when OOTP provides an experience that foremost takes attributes into account and provides realistic stats? If you don't want to personally compete and have a primary role in the outcome of each pitch why play MLBTS?

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

Hmm, hard to say. Zone is all reactionary: see the pitch, follow the pitch, time the pitch. Whereas Directional is more about having a plan: If I'm ahead I want to pull and get some extra power. If I'm behind I want to push and foul off.

Both have elements of realism to them, so it's hard to say one is better than the other.

Maybe in a few years MLB the show will be on the VR headset, and you can use motion controls to swing. But then you can't feel the weight of the bat, and I'm sure motion controls aren't precise enough yet.

That's it, becoming a pro player! Only way to play the show.

Joking aside, I think there is a point where you have to say "this is good enough" and just go with your preference. Directional plus analog seems plenty realistic to me.

[fanofbaseball]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

Hmm, hard to say. Zone is all reactionary: see the pitch, follow the pitch, time the pitch. Whereas Directional is more about having a plan: If I'm ahead I want to pull and get some extra power. If I'm behind I want to push and foul off.

Both have elements of realism to them, so it's hard to say one is better than the other.

Maybe in a few years MLB the show will be on the VR headset, and you can use motion controls to swing. But then you can't feel the weight of the bat, and I'm sure motion controls aren't precise enough yet.

That's it, becoming a pro player! Only way to play the show.

Joking aside, I think there is a point where you have to say "this is good enough" and just go with your preference. Directional plus analog seems plenty realistic to me.

So you're stating zone hitters don't
- have a plan
- try to pull (sit on a pitch) when they're ahead
- work late and waste pushes when behind

Was that part of the joking?

In the even it wasn't, I lack no confidence or certainty in informing you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[timothythefirst]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

Hmm, hard to say. Zone is all reactionary: see the pitch, follow the pitch, time the pitch. Whereas Directional is more about having a plan: If I'm ahead I want to pull and get some extra power. If I'm behind I want to push and foul off.

Both have elements of realism to them, so it's hard to say one is better than the other.

Maybe in a few years MLB the show will be on the VR headset, and you can use motion controls to swing. But then you can't feel the weight of the bat, and I'm sure motion controls aren't precise enough yet.

That's it, becoming a pro player! Only way to play the show.

Joking aside, I think there is a point where you have to say "this is good enough" and just go with your preference. Directional plus analog seems plenty realistic to me.

you can still pull/push the ball with zone hitting too. it's all just timing. it's not like old baseball games where the ball would hit the bat and just go any random direction lol.

like if I know I'm looking for a pitch low and inside and i want to pull it I just put the PCI low and inside and sit on the fastball.

that's why personally i feel like zone is the most realistic. I mean nothing you can do with a button or analog stick is going to really give you the feeling of swinging a bat but i feel like zone hitting gives you the most control over the at bat and what your player does. I used directional for a while when 16 first came out but i hated it because pitches would come in right down the middle and I'd time them perfectly and they'd end up being popups to the infield because i had no control over whether my batter squared the ball up or not.

also... touching on a few posts from the last page - hitters in real life definitely do aim their swings lol. they're not just flailing the bat around and hoping the ball runs into it. Batters look for certain pitches in certain locations all the time. There's also something to be said for "see ball -> hit ball" but you can still do that with zone... just leave the PCI in the middle and if you're seeing the ball well make your adjustments.

and idk about you guys but it's not that hard to aim the PCI while the pitch is coming. well it's hard in the sense that it takes skill to recognize pitches quickly but it's doable, I do it all the time. and I play on hall of fame when i play offline so it's not like i just made it easy. It's not even like it's something I have to put thought into.

my general rule is I just leave the PCI in the middle so if the pitcher makes a mistake I'll crush it, and I just focus on fouling off good pitches on the corners. Then if I'm seeing the ball really well out of the pitchers hand I'll move the PCI accordingly pretty much at the same time I press X.

[jeff257]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I play mostly RTTS and use Zone with buttons. I tried stride and just couldn't get the hang of it. But I do generally put my PCI in one spot and wait for a pitch. I will also move it based on pitch count and if any runners are on base or not because I know the pitchers may be trying different things. For added difficulty I have the PCI turned off so I never see it but can still influence whether I get solid contact or not. Too me that does feel the most realistic. I may try directional if I ever get into Franchise and want to worry more about stats than feel like I am actually at bat though.

[ROTTEN]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

Whats wrong with you guys? You are pushing a button or flicking a plastic stick while sitting your *** on a couch or chair ...... Yeah, realistic.

[RoyalBoyle78]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I use Zone with analog stick, It feels the best and take more skill, all I use, Directional to me is kinda easy.