Most realistic hitting mode

[Dolenz]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

Is it impossible to produce realistic outcomes through the combination of attributes and user input? If it is impossible, why are the "purists" engaging in a console video game when OOTP provides an experience that foremost takes attributes into account and provides realistic stats? If you don't want to personally compete and have a primary role in the outcome of each pitch why play MLBTS?

As soon as you add in user input then all bets are off in regards to realism. A really good gamer could hit .400 with a bronze player while a really bad one could struggle to hit .200 with Mike Trout.

Even with directional hitting, while it may give more realistic stats, it requires user input. If you have Trout at the plate and swing at every pitch out of the zone with bad timing then you will have unrealistic results.

As for OOTP baseball, I have asked that myself question for years whenever I read the Franchise players wish lists and wants. It really boils down to 2 points as far as I can tell. First they want the graphics that MLBTS provides. Secondly they want to play the game, but of course as soon as they take control of their players they will be skewing the realism as far as stats are concerned.


I am one of those players who use zone but does not move the stick around much at all, trying to wait on a mistake pitch and foul off borderline pitches. It works for me.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

So you're stating zone hitters don't
- have a plan
- try to pull (sit on a pitch) when they're ahead
- work late and waste pushes when behind

Was that part of the joking?

In the even it wasn't, I lack no confidence or certainty in informing you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

My bad. I should have said that Zone is more reactionary and Directional is more planning, but both have reactionary and planning elements, you are right.

My point was that finding what the most realistic hitting interface is about what jives the most with the player.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I think Directional Hitting is the most realistic hitting method. It takes ratings into account above anything else and when I am playing a sports games I want the players I am controlling to play like themselves and not like me (I am not in the MLB!).

It also allows for better situational hitting as you control the little adjustments made by the batter with your left stick (i.e. push up to hit a ball in air when runner on 3rd, press down and to the right to hit ball to right side when runner on 2nd and you want to move him over, etc...).

These influences happen seamlessly when an MLB hitter is at the plate. Using Zone Hitting and trying to "aim the bat" or trying to time your stride with every player (and for every single pitch) is a bit jarring because you have to account for each players unique PCI size and unique stride/follow through, all without being able to directly influence the batted ball's direction.

An example is when Mike Trout is batting in real life, he has a different plate coverage area than lets say Albert Pujols. They both also have their own strides. However, in real life each one of them is in their own body (obviously) and their own strides and plate coverage are 2nd nature to them. However, when you are playing The Show if you use stride and/or Zone Hitting you have to - on a AB to AB basis - shift your own aiming and stride to tailor that player. The adjustment maybe subtle but it disrupts your flow. That is very unnatural...in real life Pujols does not have to adjust how he swings the bat because Trout's PCI and stride are different....so why should you as a player?

I know most people will say "well do you want to play the game or let the CPU bat?" and that is not the case however. You still need to time the pitch, you still need push stick in the appropriate location, and you still need to swing at hittable pitches. But again things like stride, bat aiming, bat placement, etc....all comes second nature to these guys, so letting them control all of that and then letting me control the efficiency in which I translate all those moving parts into a good swing (good timing, pulling/pushing stick in the correct direction, swinging at the right pitches, etc...) is more realistic.

Things like stride and where the batter "aims" the bat happen subconsciously for a real batter, so adding control over these elements seems to just make hitting harder for the sake of making the game more challenging, not because its more realistic in my opinion.

[@legendm0de]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I think Directional Hitting is the most realistic hitting method. It takes ratings into account above anything else and when I am playing a sports games I want the players I am controlling to play like themselves and not like me (I am not in the MLB!).

It also allows for better situational hitting as you control the little adjustments made by the batter with your left stick (i.e. push up to hit a ball in air when runner on 3rd, press down and to the right to hit ball to right side when runner on 2nd and you want to move him over, etc...).

These influences happen seamlessly when an MLB hitter is at the plate. Using Zone Hitting and trying to "aim the bat" or trying to time your stride with every player (and for every single pitch) is a bit jarring because you have to account for each players unique PCI size and unique stride/follow through, all without being able to directly influence the batted ball's direction.

An example is when Mike Trout is batting in real life, he has a different plate coverage area than lets say Albert Pujols. They both also have their own strides. However, in real life each one of them is in their own body (obviously) and their own strides and plate coverage are 2nd nature to them. However, when you are playing The Show if you use stride and/or Zone Hitting you have to - on a AB to AB basis - shift your own aiming and stride to tailor that player. The adjustment maybe subtle but it disrupts your flow. That is very unnatural...in real life Pujols does not have to adjust how he swings the bat because Trout's PCI and stride are different....so why should you as a player?

I know most people will say "well do you want to play the game or let the CPU bat?" and that is not the case however. You still need to time the pitch, you still need push stick in the appropriate location, and you still need to swing at hittable pitches. But again things like stride, bat aiming, bat placement, etc....all comes second nature to these guys, so letting them control all of that and then letting me control the efficiency in which I translate all those moving parts into a good swing (good timing, pulling/pushing stick in the correct direction, swinging at the right pitches, etc...) is more realistic.

Things like stride and where the batter "aims" the bat happen subconsciously for a real batter, so adding control over these elements seems to just make hitting harder for the sake of making the game more challenging, not because its more realistic in my opinion.

I have to disagree with alot of your impressions about analog/stride controlled hitting, but I'll keep it short. Firstly, as for results, the factors of all gameplay conditions trump the control mechanisms. I could use analog and stride and get 10 xbhs in a game but it's not because the control lend toward unrealistic hitting characteristics, I just need my difficulty at the appropriate level. Realistic results aren't primarily due to which control scheme you prefer, that's only a complementary piece of what's happening.

With that said, when my gameplay conditions are right, I've never noticed an anomaly with the offensive characteristics of a player in a bad or good way. Which is not an easy feat to accomplish at any stage in this game. Not many players can say that on a consistent, play by play, basis their games lend realistic offensive patterns of play to begin with. I mostly attribute that success to the gameplay conditions I worked on and the control scheme of analog/zone is only a complementary part of that.

The issue that bugs me the most is saying Directional hitting is king because it allows for situational hitting. I never once will feel unable or handicapped from any situational hitting opportunities with analog control or even zone without analog. That's just totally not ever been the case for me, If I need a fly ball and I'm analog control I simply 1) hope for a pitch up 2) catch up to it and 3) put it in play 4) by getting under it - hopefully that'll lift it into the air (far enough). That's my mental approach If I'm looking for that situation, sometimes the difficulty of what's going on in the at bat might motivate me to cancel that approach and just focus on something else. Situational hitting IRL isn't automatic either and I'll see the attempt fail more or just as much as it is successful.

Lastly, I play without a PCI, strike zone, even commentary most times so it pains me to see how many times in this thread zone hitting referred to as "aiming" a bat to the location of a ball. Possibly some players think this way when they use the control scheme, but for everyday users it either never was viewed that way or it evolved because that's not how to use the control scheme. You're not aiming a location to swing the bat at with zone control, whether analog is included or not. It's ultimately a natural reaction to where you're following the angle of the ball, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm hoping analog + zone control has been restored to it's previous level of implementation, they neutered it from the game in 2015 and then restored it in 16' leaving me wondering how it exactly is configured this time around.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I have to disagree with alot of your impressions about analog/stride controlled hitting, but I'll keep it short. Firstly, as for results, the factors of all gameplay conditions trump the control mechanisms. I could use analog and stride and get 10 xbhs in a game but it's not because the control lend toward unrealistic hitting characteristics, I just need my difficulty at the appropriate level. Realistic results aren't primarily due to which control scheme you prefer, that's only a complementary piece of what's happening.

With that said, when my gameplay conditions are right, I've never noticed an anomaly with the offensive characteristics of a player in a bad or good way. Which is not an easy feat to accomplish at any stage in this game. Not many players can say that on a consistent, play by play, basis their games lend realistic offensive patterns of play to begin with. I mostly attribute that success to the gameplay conditions I worked on and the control scheme of analog/zone is only a complementary part of that.

The issue that bugs me the most is saying Directional hitting is king because it allows for situational hitting. I never once will feel unable or handicapped from any situational hitting opportunities with analog control or even zone without analog. That's just totally not ever been the case for me, If I need a fly ball and I'm analog control I simply 1) hope for a pitch up 2) catch up to it and 3) put it in play 4) by getting under it - hopefully that'll lift it into the air (far enough). That's my mental approach If I'm looking for that situation, sometimes the difficulty of what's going on in the at bat might motivate me to cancel that approach and just focus on something else. Situational hitting IRL isn't automatic either and I'll see the attempt fail more or just as much as it is successful.

Lastly, I play without a PCI, strike zone, even commentary most times so it pains me to see how many times in this thread zone hitting referred to as "aiming" a bat to the location of a ball. Possibly some players think this way when they use the control scheme, but for everyday users it either never was viewed that way or it evolved because that's not how to use the control scheme. You're not aiming a location to swing the bat at with zone control, whether analog is included or not. It's ultimately a natural reaction to where you're following the angle of the ball, nothing more, nothing less.

You make valid points and I see your point of view.
However, even with PCI off you are still aiming the bat.

You push up to make the hidden PCI move up...

I also have an issue with 'hoping' to get a pitch up to hit it up....

You can also lift pitches down the middle with Directional Hitting by aiming up....and sometimes if you time it perfect enough you can lift pitches down in the zone. If you press up on a pitch down the middle with Zone Hitting you will hit it on the ground.

With Zone Hitting you would have to get the PCI (hidden or not) under a pitch down the middle or down, which means you would press DOWN to LIFT the ball. Too me that is inverted.

Directional Hitting is more about what you want to do with the ball vs you want to do with the bat, and letting the batter choose the right type of swing on it. Sometimes you HAVE to hit the ball to a certain side of the field no matter what. And rolling a ball over or hitting weakly is enough. Directional Hitting allows for that.

A scenario where this is true is you have a weak lefty hitter AB and there is a runner on 2nd and you just need to move him over. If the hitter is lefty pulling an outside pitch on the ground is enough to do that. It will most likely be a weak grounder but you got job done.

That is a perfect example of a scenario where no matter where ball is pitched you can influence where the ball ends up, vs where the bat ends up. It does not mean it is guaranteed, but you have more control over what you want to do with the pitch.

[RoyceDa59]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I think this year I am very divisive on hitting style due to the new ball physics. I have always been a zone hitter but I find it very easy this year to hit so I have switch to Direction Hitting to test it out for a few games with my RttS player So far has made me an even more patient hitter has I am only worrying about my timing and i can't say for sure it is more easier or more realistic but it has made hitting more enjoyable for the time being.

[@legendm0de]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

You make valid points and I see your point of view.
However, even with PCI off you are still aiming the bat.

You push up to make the hidden PCI move up...

I also have an issue with 'hoping' to get a pitch up to hit it up....

You can also lift pitches down the middle with Directional Hitting by aiming up....and sometimes if you time it perfect enough you can lift pitches down in the zone. If you press up on a pitch down the middle with Zone Hitting you will hit it on the ground.

With Zone Hitting you would have to get the PCI (hidden or not) under a pitch down the middle or down, which means you would press DOWN to LIFT the ball. Too me that is inverted.

Directional Hitting is more about what you want to do with the ball vs you want to do with the bat, and letting the batter chose the right type of swing on it. Sometimes you HAVE to hit the ball to a certain side of the field no matter what. And rolling a ball over or hitting weakly is enough. Directional Hitting allows for that.

A scenario where this is true is you have a weak lefty hitter AB and there is a runner on 2nd and you just need to move him over. If the hitter is lefty pulling an outside pitch on the ground is enough to do that. It will most likely be a week grounder but you got job done.

That is a perfect example of a scenario where no matter where ball is pitched you can influence where the ball ends up, vs where the bat ends up. It does not mean it is guaranteed, but you have more control over what you want to do with the pitch.

Well yea, my definition of up is anything well above the knees, especially waist high. The cool thing I've noticed in situational hitting scenarios, at the high levels at least, the CPU tends to use the low portion of the strike zone and they'll never give in. Also there's an overwhelming chance for breaking balls vs ever getting a fastball, especially depending on the pitchers arsenal.

As I said I don't feel handicapped in any way at the plate from doing a single thing, including situational hitting whether it's fly balls, hitting side to side, trying to aim HRs at the Crawford Boxes. Multiple times over the years, I've seen other people comment about how much control over situational hitting zone plus analog gives you, so that feature is not absent in any way for those knowing how to use that control scheme.

The zone system with analog stride included gives you extra input on how you decide to hit the ball, nothing more. The results of what happen involve, primarily, your gameplay settings than the control mechanism, like I stated last post. However, as you'll see in my clips, the gameplay is such that it doesn't allow me to think offensively of it as bat aiming, I just have to naturally find my way to the ball.



For your entertainment, I wasn't able to execute but here's two 1 out First and Third scenarios I've had forever online. You can practically see how much my eyes lit up when he tempted me with a high pitch, but in both at bats it was all a trick..

https://youtu.be/W7uNuis5nbk?t=8m22s

https://youtu.be/NER4XDbcJSs?t=5m4s

[killaxxbearsxxx]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I believe I'm on record debating with el-mayimbe that zone was more realistic in terms of recreating the type of control you have over barrel placement, but since then I've change my mind. I now think directional produces the most intuitive feel for me.

My problem with zone is in the way the PCI moves in the zone (I play with it off before you suggest that). I don't like the fact that in order to hit a pitch that is right down the middle of catches much of the plate, I have to force myself not to react.

I understand the need for bat control, trust me as that is what I'm chasing but there's something about zone that just doen't feel right to me. Ideally I wouldn't want to choose the actual spot my bat is covering but the area, meaning I don't want to push the PCI up to move my bat to the upper part of the zone, I want to choose to cover the upper part of the zone.
Think of it as directional hitting but instead of choosing the way I want to influence the ball I want to choose the area in which I place the bat. The best way I can illustrate this is an example of inside outting the ball. To do this I don't want to push right and time the ball later (directional hitting), I want to push left and time the ball later.

If the PCI wasn't so loosey goosey in the strike zone I could do that using zone, but I have not figured out how to manipulate it in such a way, so right now directional is the most realistic hitting mode for me

[raneman85]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

Zone analog if I'm playing against the CPU because it's the most realistic. If I'm playing to win Directional and buttons because it makes hitting easier but not necessarily realistic. But I guess it would depend on how realistic of a person you are

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

Zone analog if I'm playing against the CPU because it's the most realistic. If I'm playing to win Directional and buttons because it makes hitting easier but not necessarily realistic. But I guess it would depend on how realistic of a person you are [emoji2]

You touched on something here which I kinda mentioned above, though we have opposing views.

Something being harder doesn't make it more realistic. Difficulty is reliant on skill, but still. I see a lot of people saying Directional Hitting is easier, but it's simpler but not easier.

But when I say simpler it is only in comparison to all the unnecessary (in my opinion) moving parts that comes with Zone and Analog hitting.

[raneman85]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

There are times when I can get the same line scores with both methods. The reason I like zone analog probably has a lot to do with playing NHL where I use both the left and right sticks. If zone analog relies more on my skills than directional, I feel I will lose more often because I am old

[Arrowhead21]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

If you press up on a pitch down the middle with Zone Hitting you will hit it on the ground.

yes, because if you swing on top of the ball, it goes into into ground. that's just physics.

With Zone Hitting you would have to get the PCI (hidden or not) under a pitch down the middle or down, which means you would press DOWN to LIFT the ball. Too me that is inverted.

its not inverted. in order to hit a ball into the air you need to get underneath it to a certain degree. physics. so reaching down to get under a knee high pitch actually feels fantastic on zone hitting.

Directional Hitting is more about what you want to do with the ball vs you want to do with the bat, and letting the batter choose the right type of swing on it. Sometimes you HAVE to hit the ball to a certain side of the field no matter what.
.

and its not hard to do this with zone hitting. you just need to do it based on swing timing. swing early to pull the ball, swing late to push the ball is the basic principle. but the primary thing for me is just being able to have full bat control. which is why zone is my preference.

[dutchy25]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

I think this year I am very divisive on hitting style due to the new ball physics. I have always been a zone hitter but I find it very easy this year to hit so I have switch to Direction Hitting to test it out for a few games with my RttS player So far has made me an even more patient hitter has I am only worrying about my timing and i can't say for sure it is more easier or more realistic but it has made hitting more enjoyable for the time being.

I have always been a directional hitter. This year I wanted to try Zone and I'm finding it way too easy. I'm hitting 430+ HR's with speed guys on HOF difficulty. I like to win but I want the game to be as realistic as possible. So I'm headed back to directional.

I'm seeing a lot of guys saying zone has been HR crazy. I wonder if the devs will do anything about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[timothythefirst]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

If the PCI wasn't so loosey goosey in the strike zone I could do that using zone, but I have not figured out how to manipulate it in such a way, so right now directional is the most realistic hitting mode for me

if by looosey-goosey you mean how sensitive it is, like how moving the analog stick down puts the PCI way too low, there's a really simple way to fix that.

it's all about how you hold your thumb. If you hold your thumb with your knuckle bent a little bit (or a lot, it's just what feels comfortable to you) your thumb naturally won't move as much so it ends up being a lot more precise, and it'll make it so moving the analog stick up puts the PCI up in the zone, not up by your players head.

It takes a little bit of getting used to just to hold your thumb like that but it's not uncomfortable at all. I saw a youtube video that suggested it back in 14 and i've been doing it ever since.

[killaxxbearsxxx]

Re: Most realistic hitting mode

if by looosey-goosey you mean how sensitive it is, like how moving the analog stick down puts the PCI way too low, there's a really simple way to fix that.

it's all about how you hold your thumb. If you hold your thumb with your knuckle bent a little bit (or a lot, it's just what feels comfortable to you) your thumb naturally won't move as much so it ends up being a lot more precise, and it'll make it so moving the analog stick up puts the PCI up in the zone, not up by your players head.

It takes a little bit of getting used to just to hold your thumb like that but it's not uncomfortable at all. I saw a youtube video that suggested it back in 14 and i've been doing it ever since.

Thanks!
I will definitely be trying this out