How do you develop a new position

[coach422001]

Quote: Originally Posted by smokines3

I wish you could choose any other position as a secondary position. You can't make a 1B have a second position of SS or CF etc... Makes it tough when they are inaccurate with the positions of utility players, as they often are. This has been an issue for YEARS...

Interesting...I never noticed this. Are you sure? I know yesterday in 17 in my final preseason options I sent a first baseman (primary position) down although i debated because he was also listed as a left fielder for the secondary position. Now I don't think I did this and he is a rookie (drafted in 15 I believe) but this may be his draft attributes. Now I'll have to check this out tonight.

[smokines3]

Quote: Originally Posted by coach422001

Interesting...I never noticed this. Are you sure? I know yesterday in 17 in my final preseason options I sent a first baseman (primary position) down although i debated because he was also listed as a left fielder for the secondary position. Now I don't think I did this and he is a rookie (drafted in 15 I believe) but this may be his draft attributes. Now I'll have to check this out tonight.

Positive. The programmers are the only ones who can have a player with a completely customized set of secondary positions. You'll have some options like LF or IF for your first baseman, but not all positions are available.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by smokines3

Positive. The programmers are the only ones who can have a player with a completely customized set of secondary positions. You'll have some options like LF or IF for your first baseman, but not all positions are available.

You can select SS as a second position for a 1B, unless I'm misunderstanding.

There ARE some combos you can't do...like LF/C/3B that only they could make.

But here's my fictional 1B with the game letting me set SS as secondary position (see attached).

I can't do SS/RF or SS/OF. But I can do plain SS.

Honestly, though, I wish they'd just open up a menu with C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, CF, RF with checkboxes and you can just pick what you want. If they can make someone like Zobrist with every position except catcher, why can't we? What would break if we could?

[smokines3]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

You can select SS as a second position for a 1B, unless I'm misunderstanding. There ARE some combos you can't do...like LF/C/3B that only they could make. But here's my fictional 1B with the game letting me set SS as secondary position (see attached). I can't do SS/RF or SS/OF. But I can do plain SS.

Correct. I was just using it as an example. For instance, take Jose Reyes on the Mets. Primary position is 3B I believe... Second positions are 3B, 2B and LF. You can't add CF to that however. If you change the second positions and save it, you also cannot go back to the customized original set.
This has literally been my biggest pet peeve with the game since it's first year...

[coach422001]

Quote: Originally Posted by smokines3

Correct. I was just using it as an example. For instance, take Jose Reyes on the Mets. Primary position is 3B I believe... Second positions are 3B, 2B and LF. You can't add CF to that however. If you change the second positions and save it, you also cannot go back to the customized original set. This has literally been my biggest pet peeve with the game since it's first year...

OK understand now what was being said and makes sense. I know 18 is supposed to give you a penalty for playing players out of position...outside of catcher I'm not sure if there are such penalties in 17. To avoid concerns I will look for some players who have decent fielding attributes and if needed in my franchise will edit the secondary positions to "IF" or "OF" or IF/OF.

Ideally they'd develop an algorithm such that playing time in a new position can develop into a secondary position. I don't know if they have that in OOTP. I know in Football Manager you can train players to develop new positions in the game. Maybe it is too restrictive on consoles based on computing power. If we can't develop, giving us the freedom able to edit and assign independent ratings for the new secondary positions would work for me.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by coach422001

Ideally they'd develop an algorithm such that playing time in a new position can develop into a secondary position. I don't know if they have that in OOTP.

That's literally how OOTP does it.

You play a guy there. As he gains experience, his positional rating will go up, with how fast it goes up relating directly to his raw defensive skills (IF range/errors/arm/DP for infielders, including pitchers, OF range/error/arm for outfielders, catching ability/catcher arm for catchers)

Even if you edit the position in (give him playing time at the position in the editor), the above still applies.

The only "penalty" for being "out of position" is how ever long it takes him to get his rating up. A top tier SS will take to 2B far faster than a borderline 1B, who might not even get a rating at 2B, even with lots of playing time.

[smokines3]

Quote: Originally Posted by coach422001

OK understand now what was being said and makes sense. I know 18 is supposed to give you a penalty for playing players out of position...outside of catcher I'm not sure if there are such penalties in 17. To avoid concerns I will look for some players who have decent fielding attributes and if needed in my franchise will edit the secondary positions to "IF" or "OF" or IF/OF. Ideally they'd develop an algorithm such that playing time in a new position can develop into a secondary position. I don't know if they have that in OOTP. I know in Football Manager you can train players to develop new positions in the game. Maybe it is too restrictive on consoles based on computing power. If we can't develop, giving us the freedom able to edit and assign independent ratings for the new secondary positions would work for me.

I was under the impression 17 was the first year with the penalties? I could be wrong.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by smokines3

I was under the impression 17 was the first year with the penalties? I could be wrong.

I've always read that secondary was -20% effectiveness and not listed was like -40%. That's been in for a while I believe.

The new penalties that have become very punitive are new to this year's game.