A different type of forced scripting

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pedro32

This game is the only sports game I would dare spend this much time with.

Same here, and it's not even close.

[RogerDodger]

Quote: Originally Posted by El_MaYiMbE

Not what I am saying...in real life you see when someone squares up a ball and hits it hard. When someone does not square up a ball they hit it weak. We are not talking about success rate, but just simply outcomes of good vs bad. High scoring vs low scoring. In real life you see this...it may not be obvious in real time but when you break down the replay you see someone just got under or over the ball, or was just early or late. Granted in real life there are games where everyone is on the ball, or where no one is on the ball...but when you break down the AB you can see that happening across the board if you analyze every pitch. It is unexplained as to why, but you can literally see it happening for whatever the reason may be. In MLB The Show you can have what seemingly looks like two same EXACT swings, with same EXACT feedbacks, on same EXACT pitches, with same EXACT timing and have different results. When you go to the replay everything looks EXACTLY the same, but the results are different. Leading me to believe the difference between the two events is not the player but some determined outcome....maybe not pre-determined...but something other than the input caused that result (i.e. this game is going to be a high scoring game vs a low scoring game) Again, to the naked eye this randomness seems to happen in real life too. But when you break down the swings you see in real life why it happened. In The Show contact points are finite due to animation and overall video game limitations, so similar looking swings have different results to keep the results varied even though the animations are all the same... This disconnect is what I feel causes that feeling of the results do not match what I see. Even if it is or is not realistic. It does not pass the eye test.

There’s so many variables that I doubt anything happens exactly the same during the course of a single game, if at all to be quite honest. Whether that be pitcher release point, location, hit timing, hitter position relative to the ball, etc... too many variables at work.

[bcruise]

Quote: Originally Posted by RogerDodger

There’s so many variables that I doubt anything happens exactly the same during the course of a single game, if at all to be quite honest. Whether that be pitcher release point, location, hit timing, hitter position relative to the ball, etc... too many variables at work.

That's really easy to prove, actually.

Play to any given point in the game in a franchise, then save the game in-progress and exit. You now have a file you can load up to repeat whatever the current situation is. As long as you don't actually finish the game and instead "dashboard" quit out of the game with the PS button, you can load that save any number of times and see how many different ways the situation plays out.

And there will definitely be variety in how it plays out.

[Caulfield]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcruise

That's really easy to prove, actually. Play to any given point in the game in a franchise, then save the game in-progress and exit. You now have a file you can load up to repeat whatever the current situation is. As long as you don't actually finish the game and instead "dashboard" quit out of the game with the PS button, you can load that save any number of times and see how many different ways the situation plays out. And there will definitely be variety in how it plays out.

This is excellent, the best way for even the most ardent believer of scripted games to see they are non-existant. But the real issue is those that push the comeback agenda & create more threads to that devotion already know it doesnt exist & have no reason to perform the experiment.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcruise

That's really easy to prove, actually. Play to any given point in the game in a franchise, then save the game in-progress and exit. You now have a file you can load up to repeat whatever the current situation is. As long as you don't actually finish the game and instead "dashboard" quit out of the game with the PS button, you can load that save any number of times and see how many different ways the situation plays out. And there will definitely be variety in how it plays out.

Quote: Originally Posted by Caulfield

This is excellent, the best way for even the most ardent believer of scripted games to see they are non-existant. But the real issue is those that push the comeback agenda & create more threads to that devotion already know it doesnt exist & have no reason to perform the experiment.

Please stop using logic. Y'all are ruining this thread.

[El_MaYiMbE]

The thread got a little out of hand, but I will say this to put a bow on what I was trying to say...

I disagree that the game is "scripted" although I admit thats how it FEELS sometimes because of the trends and how things tend to happen...but I know better than to think that is actually what is happening.

What I do feel is true, is that with all the analytics we have IRL baseball, we are hyper-sensitive to not just things like exit-velo and launch angles but to also winning percentage, tendencies, runs scored per game, etc...and when they do not add up it feels like something is off.

I think that is the whole point of the thread....things happen in the game at a different rate than they do in MLB, but we have enough examples that show that type of behavior is not in-line with what we see IRL.

Whether that be comebacks, lack of doubles, too many HRs, not enough walks, too many strikeouts, too many foul balls, whatever....the game sometimes is just off, despite it being spot on most of the other times.

Like why does the CPU still pull off suicide squeeze, with the bases loaded, late in the game almost every time? I have watched enough baseball to know that almost never is attempted, and it is a bad play to call.

Why do pull hitters consistantly get hits to the opposite field to beat the shift, despite proof that players are unable (unwilling?) to hit balls the other way to beat the shift...so much so there are talks about banning shifts. It just is not realistic and for as minor or innocent as it looks it adds up to 3-4 scenarios per game that swing things in a direction they would not have taken otherwise.

Granted for every one of those examples above, there are 4-5 other things the game gets right, but the things it gets wrong add up and it makes things, (again) FEEL as if they are stacked against you because the frequency of these occurrences defy what we know to be true about the brand of baseball we see on TV and try to emulate in The Show.

Is the game scripted? No
Is something "off" and needs to be corrected? Yes
Is the game still fun and the best representation of baseball ever produced? Yes, every year.

My 2 cents....

[stealyerface]

I commented on this last year, and I still am under the impression that when each game starts, there is a "dice-roll" whereby the game institutes a slant towards one side or the other.

An ebb and flow so to speak.

I think it all hearkens back to another game from 2005, that offered a toggle for "Variable Stuff".

This gave the user the option to turn on some sort of under-the-hood voodoo that would give the user a non-predictable outcome based on the game using, well... variable stuff.

Maybe your pitcher had a hard time finding his spots one game, but was dotting corners the next. Maybe your batters had a little more pop, or your fielders got a little better jump. It was a way to program the un-programmable nature of sports and humans in general.

I think this game does this, but without announcing it, or allowing the user to turn that on or off.

And because of this, the game seems to feel like it is "cheating" from time to time, as you are fighting the slant against you, and working uphill the entire game. Likewise, sometimes your boys are just clicking, and balls find the gap, your pitcher is throwing darts, and you are rolling headlong downhill without much effort.

That is where I think the premise of a comeback code, or righting the CPU's sinking ship comes from.

I love the variable outcomes, and chalk it up to me playing stupid, leaving a pitcher in for one too many pitches, or not being patient at the plate, and swinging in hitter-positive counts versus chasing crap all game long...

I had Chris Sale pitch me eight innings of 2 hit baseball, and I took a 2-0 lead into the top of the ninth with Kimbrel to close it out. The CPU had struggled, and showed no signs of digging out of its malaise.

Kimbrel gave up back to back to back home runs at Fenway, and I lost the game 3-2

While I swore, and shook my head, and wanted to cry foul, I understand that the game needs to replicate the flow of the tides, and I rode the incoming tide with Sale for eight innings, but did not utilize that good fortune to score more runs, and by the time the tide turned, I could not stay in the harbor and got swept out to sea.

I feel the game definitely cuts the deck pre-game, and it is up to you to decipher which hand you were dealt, and game plan accordingly.

~syf

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by stealyerface

I feel the game definitely cuts the deck pre-game, and it is up to you to decipher which hand you were dealt, and game plan accordingly.

I don't because my games have too many ups-and-downs in them to think that the game has predetermined them all or that this would happen before the first pitch.

Variable stuff, I'd believe that's in the game. I use Classic and Directional - so RNG is always in play.

What I don't believe is that the game "rolled up" a "back-and-forth-game-where-both-teams-have-and-miss-opportunities".