Machida vs Shogun...UFC 104

[filmguy1974]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Really? Evans didnt deserve a shot after beating Bonner, Liddell and Bisping but Machida deserved one after beating Ortiz and T. Silva? I think both deserved it but I think its hard to argue that Machida deserved it and Evans didnt.

No. Decision wins against Bonnar and Bisping don't really amount to much of anything, IMO - neither guy has ever sniffed a title belt. Also- take into account a lackluster performance against Tito, and the only real win that gives Rashad any street cred going into his title fight is the one against a near 40-year-old Liddell who now gets knocked out almost every time he leaves the house.

Rashad didn't get his title shot because he was the most deserving guy- he got it because it gave Dana a chance to hype a TUF winner vs. TUF winner in a title fight.

For Lyoto- he absolutely creamed Soko, Tito, and T.Silva in a row leading up to his title shot. It's not just about listing out who you've beaten and playing the MMAth game on an internet forum - it's also about how good you look in the ring. Lyoto has looked damn near invincible for some time now. Rashad has been inconsistent, and has shown a tendency to fight down to the level of his competition.

[LP]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rau71

Rashad didn't beat Ortiz, it was a draw. And Tito lost a point for grabbing the fence too. It could have easily been a loss. But Bisping was a good win, kinda. I wouldn't have been surprised if the split went to Bisping.

I don't think he ever said Shad beat Ortiz.

[LP]

Quote: Originally Posted by filmguy1974

No. Decision wins against Bonnar and Bisping don't really amount to much of anything, IMO - neither guy has ever sniffed a title belt. Also- take into account a lackluster performance against Tito, and the only real win that gives Rashad any street cred going into his title fight is the one against a near 40-year-old Liddell who now gets knocked out almost every time he leaves the house. Rashad didn't get his title shot because he was the most deserving guy- he got it because it gave Dana a chance to hype a TUF winner vs. TUF winner in a title fight. For Lyoto- he absolutely creamed Soko, Tito, and T.Silva in a row leading up to his title shot. It's not just about listing out who you've beaten and playing the MMAth game on an internet forum - it's also about how good you look in the ring. Lyoto has looked damn near invincible for some time now. Rashad has been inconsistent, and has shown a tendency to fight down to the level of his competition.

A win is a win is a win. If a guy is undefeated in the UFC with those names on his record, he deserves a title shot. Since he won the title, I would say he was pretty deserving of the shot. He was good enough to beat the champ, right?

Who do you think should have fought Griffin?

[wyrm187]

I'm curious as to who you think will win this fight - I'm obviously picking Machida - I want to see if any of you are picking Rua?

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by filmguy1974

No. Decision wins against Bonnar and Bisping don't really amount to much of anything, IMO - neither guy has ever sniffed a title belt. Also- take into account a lackluster performance against Tito, and the only real win that gives Rashad any street cred going into his title fight is the one against a near 40-year-old Liddell who now gets knocked out almost every time he leaves the house. Rashad didn't get his title shot because he was the most deserving guy- he got it because it gave Dana a chance to hype a TUF winner vs. TUF winner in a title fight. For Lyoto- he absolutely creamed Soko, Tito, and T.Silva in a row leading up to his title shot. It's not just about listing out who you've beaten and playing the MMAth game on an internet forum - it's also about how good you look in the ring. Lyoto has looked damn near invincible for some time now. Rashad has been inconsistent, and has shown a tendency to fight down to the level of his competition.

Thats a bit of revisionist history. 1) Now everyone says and realizes that Chuck is shot but nobody was saying that before the Evans loss. Most thought he was going to beat Evans especially since he was coming off the W. Silva victory. At the time, it was a very impressive win.

2) At the time when Evans got the shot, Machida hadnt beaten T. Silva yet. So his only major wins were against Soko (very overrated) and Ortiz (a decision win and a fight Ortiz almost won in round 3 w/ a triangle choke).

3) At the time, there was no one else who deserved a shot more than Evans. Machida hadnt KO'd Silva yet, Rampage just lost and was having personal issues, Chuck lost to Evans, Jardine just lost to W. Silva, Silva lost to Chuck. Henderson was coming off 2 straight losses. You have Evans who is undefeated and coming off a KO win of a former champion. Who the hell else deserved to get a shot then?

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by LP

I don't think he ever said Shad beat Ortiz.

I didnt.

[filmguy1974]

Quote: Originally Posted by LP

A win is a win is a win.

No, it isn't. All wins are not created equal.

Quote: Originally Posted by LP

Since he won the title, I would say he was pretty deserving of the shot. He was good enough to beat the champ, right?

No- I can't get on board with that reasoning at all. Griffin shouldn't have gotten his title shot when he got it, either. Neither guy had even one successful title defense- which kinda' bolsters my point. Both guys were carried into title fights prematurely because of their TUF fame.

Quote: Originally Posted by LP

A win is a win is a win.

No, it isn't. All wins are not created equal.

Quote: Originally Posted by LP

Who do you think should have fought Griffin?

Rampage should have gotten an immediate rematch. Failing that - both Lyoto and T. Silva were ahead of Rashad in my rankings at that point in time (this would be prior to Lyoto's destruction of Thiago, of course).

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by filmguy1974

Rampage should have gotten an immediate rematch. Failing that - both Lyoto and T. Silva were ahead of Rashad in my rankings at that point in time (this would be prior to Lyoto's destruction of Thiago, of course).

LOL....T. Silva? His biggest wins in the UFC at the time were over Houston Alexander and James Irvin. That gets you a title shot but beating Bisping and Liddell doesnt? I can see how people can argue that Machida deserved one then (I disagree with it but I can see it) but Silva? Wow.