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Fedor retiring to go into politics?

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Old 06-11-2010, 08:41 PM   #33
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Re: Fedor retiring to go into politics?

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Originally Posted by aholbert32
As for Fedor beating 4 top 10 HW's, thats arguable. Werdum isnt a top ten HW right now so that knocks him off the list. Rogers didnt deserve to be Top 10 if he was ever listed there. He beat one top fighter in Arlovski. He was pure hype by SF. So really, you have 2 top 10 guys that Fedor beat and when those guys are shot like Sylvia and Arlovski are....thats not saying much.
Werdum IS a top 10 HW. Werdum's been a top 10 HW for quite a while now. At the time of all of Fedor's recent wins his opponents have been legitimate top 10 HW's. Most top 10 HW rankings have undergone some dramatic changes only recently with the rise of a lot of new stars (Cain, JDS, Carwin,).

No one has a more legit record than Fedor, he's beaten all the top guys when they were the top guys.

MMA is still a young sport, but if anyone right now deserves the title of all time best, It's Fedor.
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:43 PM   #34
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Re: Fedor retiring to go into politics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillmattic
Werdum IS a top 10 HW. Werdum's been a top 10 HW for quite a while now. At the time of all of Fedor's recent wins his opponents have been legitimate top 10 HW's. Most top 10 HW rankings have undergone some dramatic changes only recently with the rise of a lot of new stars (Cain, JDS, Carwin,).

No one has a more legit record than Fedor, he's beaten all the top guys when they were the top guys.

MMA is still a young sport, but if anyone right now deserves the title of all time best, It's Fedor.
If Sylvia and Arlovksi were top 10 HW's at the time they fought Fedor then it was merely because the HW division was top heavy as a whole because neither guy should have been in a top 10 list.
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:40 AM   #35
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Re: Fedor retiring to go into politics?

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If Sylvia and Arlovksi were top 10 HW's at the time they fought Fedor then it was merely because the HW division was top heavy as a whole because neither guy should have been in a top 10 list.
Arvloski was ranked around #2 or #3 on most top ten lists when he fought Fedor. Sylvia was top 5 in the sherdog rankings as was Bret Rogers. Werdum has been floating around in most top 10 lists for years. These guys aren't thrown on these lists randomly you have to have accomplished something to be considered top 10 by anyone.

I still don't understand how people discredit Fedor's career by basing it on the potential of fighters who have yet to accomplish anything close to what Fedor has.

Fedor beat all of the top guys while they were the top guys.

I think most people's frustration with Fedor is they think he's ducking Lesnar, but most don't remember that Affliction/M-1 were trying to set up a fight with Lesnar after he beat Couture. Fedor takes a lot of slack for not ditching M-1 and signing with the UFC, yet the UFC gets none for not co-promoting with anyone else and making Brock vs Fedor happen?
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Old 06-12-2010, 03:04 AM   #36
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Re: Fedor retiring to go into politics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillmattic
Arvloski was ranked around #2 or #3 on most top ten lists when he fought Fedor. Sylvia was top 5 in the sherdog rankings as was Bret Rogers. Werdum has been floating around in most top 10 lists for years. These guys aren't thrown on these lists randomly you have to have accomplished something to be considered top 10 by anyone.

I still don't understand how people discredit Fedor's career by basing it on the potential of fighters who have yet to accomplish anything close to what Fedor has.

Fedor beat all of the top guys while they were the top guys.

I think most people's frustration with Fedor is they think he's ducking Lesnar, but most don't remember that Affliction/M-1 were trying to set up a fight with Lesnar after he beat Couture. Fedor takes a lot of slack for not ditching M-1 and signing with the UFC, yet the UFC gets none for not co-promoting with anyone else and making Brock vs Fedor happen?
I find it extremely hard to believe that Arlovski was #2 or #3 on anyone list at that time. He might have been coming off of 5 wins but he beat garbage and when he did beat the likes of Ben Rothwell and Roy Nelson he looked horrible in the process. Furthermore, if he was ranked that high it was more because the division was weak so guys were ranked higher then they should have been. Im a HUGE Arlovski fan but hes been average at best since he got knocked out by Sylvia. Claiming Sylvia was top 5 further proves my point, hes always been garbage.

I find it laughable that you think the UFC should co-promote with M1, what the hell for? The UFC has spent countless amounts of money and time building their brand and now their gonna bend over and allow M1 to build a name off their back just to get Fedor to fight in the UFC? Look at the issues EliteXc had dealing with M1, look at the issues Strikeforce is having now with M1, this isnt on the UFC, this is on M1 100%. If Fedor is fine fighting in Strikeforce then more power to him, I couldnt care less at this point but to say the UFC should bend over backwards for one fighter is not only illogical but it sets a really bad precedent for future negotiations with fighters.

Im not one of the ones discrediting Fedor as I can see the legitimacy of the fighters he fought in Pride but at the same time if he really wants to continue to fight the best of the best then he shouldnt be hiding behind M1 and instead should make the fights happen. First he wouldnt come over to the UFC because they wouldnt let him continue to fight in sambo then when that was rectified then he wouldnt come over without M1 getting co-promotion with the UFC, to me atleast, it sounds like hes coming up with any excuse he can to avoid the UFC under any and all conditions.

EDIT- In terms of these rankings, like Dana has said himself, the rankings are ridiculous and completely inaccurate. Its really impossible to rank fighters against each other when they are in not only different weight classes but in completely different organizations.
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Old 06-12-2010, 09:38 AM   #37
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Re: Fedor retiring to go into politics?

My comment to the "Fedor ducking" accusations is that Alistair Overeem himself said that he has talked and trained with Fedor, that he is a warrior and that Fedor WANTS to fight Overeem (and other top competition I assume). Overeem says that it's Fedor's "handlers" that are causing all of the problems. Unless both Overeem AND Fedor are liars, I don't think Fedor is purposely ducking people. I will say that if Fedor's "handlers" are the problem, then the onus is on Fedor to fix that problem and make the fights people want to see happen.
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Old 06-12-2010, 10:11 AM   #38
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Re: Fedor retiring to go into politics?

He has nothing else to prove.. Period! He could go to the UFC and beat every HW there and people still would say he needs to beat this new guy so let the haters hate but his record speak for itself. It's funny when people say he's on the decline while he's still knocking people out but Mir or any other fighter that lose they are rusty or injured. Remember when Rogers was the Fedor killer? Overeem has been beat by fighers that Fedor destroyed...
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Old 06-12-2010, 11:18 AM   #39
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Re: Fedor retiring to go into politics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aholbert32
Silva fought Cote in 08 and Leites in early 09. Shields wouldnt have received a shot at Silva during that time because he didnt start fighting at MW until mid 09. He wasnt proven at MW and there is no way Dana and Joe would have given him a shot over proven MW's like Cote and Leites who had wins in the UFC at MW.

I like Jacare alot but he didnt have the track record in 08. His biggest win was over Mayhem Miller. You could argue that Cote had bigger wins than Jacare at the time with wins over Almeida, Grove and Scott Smith.

As for the hype of Belfort and Aki, Aki's hype wasnt big enough for a title shot in the US in 08. Most UFC fans had no idea who he was. Belfort had a name but he was happy fighting bums in Cage Rage during that time.

As for Fedor beating 4 top 10 HW's, thats arguable. Werdum isnt a top ten HW right now so that knocks him off the list. Rogers didnt deserve to be Top 10 if he was ever listed there. He beat one top fighter in Arlovski. He was pure hype by SF. So really, you have 2 top 10 guys that Fedor beat and when those guys are shot like Sylvia and Arlovski are....thats not saying much.
Some lazy research:
http://www.411mania.com/MMA/columns/...t-Rankings.htm

One set of MW rankings from just before silvas fight with irvin. Feel free to debate the order, but the overall gist of guys is about right from what I remember.

The UFC had 7 of the top 17 MWs listed at the beginning of this stretch of silva can-stomping. Of the 4 in the top 10.. silva had beaten all of them (the okami DQ was ********..). Leites makes the list as a contender on the strength of the worst win in the history of the UFC in which nate the great lost a *split* decision after getting docked 2 (TWO) points for destroying leites illegally.

I would bet the guys I mentioned (three on that list, vitor at LHW and shields at WW at the time) could beat two guys fresh off TUF (smith, grove) and then half-win against almeida to earn a title shot at silva.

All I'm trying to say is that silva could have been fighting better MW's than he did for a stretch (a hypothetical and fantastical statement, but a common fallacy nonetheless in debating stratified MMA organizations).

This is the same exact argument people make against fedor.. there are fighters outside of SF that would be more competitive against fedor than the current SF competition. Why all the eternal hate for fedor's strength of competition in SF while few complained about silva in a parallel situation?

As for the top-10 debate, you can have your reservations and everyone knows that rankings are not absolute or universal but it doesn't negate the history. Werdum is currently a top 10 fighter, as were the last three opponents fedor fought.. not up for debate. Tim and arv were both considered top 5 (as was barnett, for the record).

You could debate the importance of the notion of rankings across promotions, which would be fair, but that is an argument that negates this entire hypothetical discussion, pro-fedor or anti-fedor. If you don't quantify the significance of fights, you can't compare fighters.
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:11 PM   #40
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Re: Fedor retiring to go into politics?

His record means squat. He won't fight in the best league (UFC), instead he fights ex-UFC champs who are "Ex champs" for a reason. It's like being the best player in the European basketball league and thinking you would do the same in the NBA.
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