Magic and the 50s collection

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by justlaze

can you let me know how it feels having West at the 2? One of the main reason I don't want to lock is this forced team setup...like both players are too good and it's a shame not having both starting... if you say it's working well I might pick that Magic up because the prices are really falling down and I already use Oscar anyway.

I don't have any experience with these guys this year. But unless you're going to chase Barkley, or MT is no issue for you, I wouldn't lock in for Diamond Magic.

You already have West, Diamond Tim Hardaway, and Diamond Oscar. Oscar is, in many ways, an alternate form of Magic. And I think both West and Hardaway are too small to be ideal at 2.

Your team is stacked so you have only good dilemmas, but if I were you, I'd keep your PG trio, presuming you prefer to play with quicker shooting PG's. Oscar on the bench to handle defending a Magic.

Then save/use your MT for a current or future upgrade to a more ideal card at 2 or 3 or bench 4.

[Bubba13laze]

Quote: Originally Posted by justlaze

can you let me know how it feels having West at the 2? One of the main reason I don't want to lock is this forced team setup...like both players are too good and it's a shame not having both starting... if you say it's working well I might pick that Magic up because the prices are really falling down and I already use Oscar anyway.

Tbh it's not really working well. Okay so some pros and cons. A big pro is the playmaking is my lineup is incredible. It feels like everyone can pass the ball well and set up others. I have dimer on magic, west, king, and Ewing. A big problem though is my stats with west are actually way down since putting him the 2. Also my offensive flow does not feel very good.

I am starting magic at 1 but changing defensive matchups so west covers the 1. West is better at on ball harassing with the high steal whole magic is better at off ball steals.

So my defense feels amazing but yeah the offensive flow, perhaps I don't utilize magic well, just doesn't feel great. I have to give it some more time but I may end up putting west back at the 1 and getting a better shooting 2 in again.

Last point, I think the Oscar is better than magic. Only thing is the purple dimer on magic..

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bubba13laze

Tbh it's not really working well. Okay so some pros and cons. A big pro is the playmaking is my lineup is incredible. It feels like everyone can pass the ball well and set up others. I have dimer on magic, west, king, and Ewing. A big problem though is my stats with west are actually way down since putting him the 2. Also my offensive flow does not feel very good. I am starting magic at 1 but changing defensive matchups so west covers the 1. West is better at on ball harassing with the high steal whole magic is better at off ball steals.

Defensively, that's sounds just fine. West on PG's and Magic on SG's (or SF's).

But offensively, it's kind of a waste, no matter who is 1 and who is 2, and no matter who is ball-dominant in a possession.

Magic's appeal is obvious: post up and exploit smaller guards. If you have good stick skills, he is also pretty effective at driving into the paint and making tough layups.

West is a smaller, quicker guy who is an ace shooter, but what really stands out about him, offensively, is his great shooting, especially off the dribble.

So it's a waste to turn West into a secondary guy who is going to Catch & Shoot. Might as well use Klay or someone else. Especially someone who isn't a layup-only driver like Magic, but a dunking slasher with great handles.

And if West is ball-dominant, obviously Magic is very problematic as a guy lurking in the wings for the chance to catch and shoot.

It's a good problem to have but I think it's a "problem." But I've never been the sort of player to have my SG be guys like West, Curry, Kyrie, etc.

[justlaze]

thanks for the honest words guys.

Looks like I'm not going for Magic, because I don't have any intentions getting Barkley and if this is all about that Amy Dimer I might just pick up a Stockton and try that out. Maybe I enjoy him more than Hardaway, but as far my reading goes, everyone is pretty amazed...need to give him a shot huh?

anyway, harryl you describe it pretty well...good dilemmas - exactly.
It's more of an interest picking guys up, but it doesn't really makes sense economically. I just hope they keep adding content which is basically not a MT/VC grab, but a senseful upgrade...

edit: @harryl, totally agree on the team chemistry topic. that was the main brainer, which kept me off of getting this Magic collection in the first place. it's important to have 5 different roles on the court otherwise you lack diversity and depth in play.

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by justlaze

thanks for the honest words guys. Looks like I'm not going for Magic, because I don't have any intentions getting Barkley and if this is all about that Amy Dimer I might just pick up a Stockton and try that out. Maybe I enjoy him more than Hardaway, but as far my reading goes, everyone is pretty amazed...need to give him a shot huh?

Glad the discussion helped.

On Stockton...I bought him at 229K (PC!) and played a few Challenges with him and Malone at 1 and 4 for fun. It's a really nice combo, but on that specific duo (not Dyn Duo, but duo), unless you have a stretch 5, it's a little too easy to defend the Malone roll, as potent as it is, especially coupled with Stockton HoF P&R Maestro.

I sold Stockton soon after because I thought he'd drop in price as days went by and my 229K was actually a good deal at the time (resold for 280K).

Felt that, for that amount of MT (commensurate to what one might be able to get an AM LeBron or AM Cousins right now, or 2.5 Kobes), Stockton wasn't THAT good.

I didn't find him SO money shooting threes off a screen. He's quick and fast, but not crazy-quick and -fast. And his animation is not especially quick, to me. This year, I think the benchmarks for quick releases are Rewards Horry, Carmelo, and Brandon Ingram. Stockton isn't quite there, but is probably on the quicker side.

I don't really want to play a smaller PG unless they're in the 90's for three-point shooting, so...a Ruby Curry maybe, or future Moments versions of Kyrie or Lillard. Maybe a Nash if he gets a Diamond.

If I can't terrorize the opposition with the ever-present threat of draining threes off the screen, then I'd rather go for someone bigger and stronger.

That said, he's very good. And I only used him for a few games so I didn't give enough time to master his shot.

[Blraob]

Locked in magic as im a big fan, and trialling oscar and stockton behind him.

After 20 or so games the verdict is....

Magic is consistent as #@%. Assists, post play, amazing driving layup and animations, defends 4 positions, hits the middy and is money on the free throw. Everytime i play and magics stats pop up im always suprised by his impact.

Oscar im still getting to learn. But one thing is clear, the guy can drive and finish. His dribble animations and first step around pg's sets up easy buckets. Despite his speed a little lower than others, it doesnt feel like its a big weakness as his on ball d is amazing. Always pops up for a sneaky block on sub 6'4 pg's also. Got torched by someone running oscar as the starting pg about a week ago. It actually took me by suprise how well he played with him thst i was caught on the back foot a little, which he took advantage of and also hit 3's. For me though in the 4-5 days, if he hit the 3 a little more consistently he would potentially be vying for a position as a starter. But he doesnt, so hes a 2nd or 3rd stringer.

Stockton is a very nice card. Nice is an annoying word. But yeah, hes just nice. His dimer badge is what keeps me persisting with him. Without it i dont think he is a 3rd option for me. The only thing he brings that the others dont is uncanny ability to create space and dish. His on ball d is great but i get that with magic and oscar also so that point of difference is negated. Like magic, he sneaks under the radar. Last night in 4 mins he went for 4pts, 4 assts, 2 steals. Thats responsible for 12 points, 2 possessions on the fast break. I was impressed.

But why am i now looking at kyrie? Stockton doenst reliably hit the 3, plain and simple. When he doesnt perform me, he is the opposite, i cant sub him quick enough.

Every pg has pros and cons. Magics pros are literally magic, when oscar impacts a game you and the opposition know it, and stockton is like basically every other top pg, great pros but the cons hurt the team too much.

[ChiliPalmer]

Thanks guys. Now I'm still torn but a lot wiser.
I agree with many arguments and that its a tough choice for any Magic fan. Meanwhile the Ammy does great for me so I'm tempted to slap a diamond speed shoe on him and save 150$.
I sold Nash for now just in case Mitch comes out on thursday and prices go down again.

[roboas]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChiliPalmer

Thanks guys. Now I'm still torn but a lot wiser. I agree with many arguments and that its a tough choice for any Magic fan. Meanwhile the Ammy does great for me so I'm tempted to slap a diamond speed shoe on him and save 150$. I sold Nash for now just in case Mitch comes out on thursday and prices go down again.

I think your intuition is good. I've locked in nearly every collection possible, and I can tell you that about a week afterward, I come to somewhat regret my decision. The point is that you're locking in MT that you'll never get back, and you're making a statement that the return on your investment is someone that you'll be using for a long time. But the cards keep getting better in this game, so you're really not helping yourself in the long term.

Case in point: I got amethyst Magic for 50K over Thanksgiving and badged him out. Then I dropped 450K on the Cavs collection to get Mark Price. Price is a beast. Then I got PD Jerry West. West is Price with defense and speed. Then Diamond Magic came out. He's better than the amethyst, but only in a small way. West is on my bench and I have nowhere for Price. Never mind the coin i dropped on Tim Hardaway (he sucks) or the time I invested to get Tony Parker.

You will always be a week or two ahead of the curve by locking in these collections. The only one that I can truly say was "worth it" was the rockets one, because you get Sampson who is every bit as beastly as Shaq, and Clyde, who may not look like an outstanding SG on stats alone, but has incredible defense and an uncanny ability to score. He's the only guy that hasn't left my starting lineup, but there's a USA Clyde on the horizon and I'm sure he'll be better.