How do you guys deal against deny all defensive setting

[Bi00]

Yeah that is probably the case. There is a Sam Pham video on this as well. Of course you want to practice both as there will be many times that a Y cut is needed. Also, the post-up quick play can be used as an alternative to quick cut. If you are playing high low with your PF for example, you can call the post up with the C and he will often cut while isolating across the paint. Quick pass and dunk and it's a pretty abusive play.

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bi00

Yeah that is probably the case. There is a Sam Pham video on this as well. Of course you want to practice both as there will be many times that a Y cut is needed. Also, the post-up quick play can be used as an alternative to quick cut. If you are playing high low with your PF for example, you can call the post up with the C and he will often cut while isolating across the paint. Quick pass and dunk and it's a pretty abusive play.

It's cheap as hell. I have used that specifically for offensive boards for rebounding Challenges. But I don't want to play that way in MTO as it's exploit cheese.

It's also not the easiest command sequence to pull off versus a human, because you need to post up to protect the ball, but you need to hit L2 to call a command for your Center...

[Bi00]

Well it would be straight up unstoppable if it wasn't for the input lag in MTO. You can't reliably pull the complicated stuff off all the time. That's why it's nice to have some set plays that pretty much do the same thing so you aren't pressing a ton of buttons at once. I forgot which set play does this but I know there are some.

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bi00

Well it would be straight up unstoppable if it wasn't for the input lag in MTO. You can't reliably pull the complicated stuff off all the time. That's why it's nice to have some set plays that pretty much do the same thing so you aren't pressing a ton of buttons at once. I forgot which set play does this but I know there are some.

Yeah, I haven't tried it at all in MTO, so not sure how slight lag might affect it.

But my impression versus CPU is that, when I was using Shawn Bradley at 5 and someone like LMA at 4, then I was making nearly 50% of the shots, first of all, and when I'd miss, Bradley would grab at least half the possible rebounds.

So the net effect is like shooting 70%+ from the floor. Actually...more than that, because when I was pulling this cheese, I was trying to get rebounds. If I was just trying to win, I'd just dunk off the rebound with Bradley.

So then it might be like shooting 80%+ unless the opponent off-balls and makes sure to maintain rebounding position with his center.

In which case the CPU can be abused with the post-up PF.

Not something I'd do except maybe to piss off someone pulling their own cheese and/or pause griefing.

[shamiers]

Yea to piggy back on everyone else, cuts is what I seen beats the all deny tactic, deny is going to keep those players tight on their man to deflect basically any pass, naturally the computer won't react quick enough to back door cuts and off ball screen cuts.

[Yukk]

Quote: Originally Posted by kabamaru

First some summary. I am in pink diamond first prestige league. I play 4 out 1space the floor and usually I use a lot of PnR with warriors playbook. Team in signature I have to say that I really hate deny all tactic. I feel it is open as It isn't punishing with fouls or stamina loss and turns the game In wrestlemania. Plus it is completely unrealistic. But how do you counter it? Last year I would pass to my center move towards the 3pt line ask for my pg to do a manual cut and I had a basket. This year this leads to many turnovers. So I am forced to play more Pnr making my game one dimensional and I struggle if my opponent is decent defending it I refuse play 5 out. Would changing to motion cuts or scoring actions help How do you deal?

No offense but IMO your old tactic sounds very very cheesy by abusing weak CPU from last year. Also sounds like people don't even have Deny on in their settings, its probably on AUTO but this year they impoved throwing the ball in the paint anytime you want, thus resulting in your turning the ball over. You can stilil do it but you have to make sure your man is open. Same goes for cuts, you can still use it as viable strategy but timing is a lot more important, also factors like passers ability and defenders reaction come into play a lot more. I think the game does a good job prevent people from just spamming that all day but at the same time its still a viable option from time to time.

[kabamaru]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yukk

No offense but IMO your old tactic sounds very very cheesy by abusing weak CPU from last year. Also sounds like people don't even have Deny on in their settings, its probably on AUTO but this year they impoved throwing the ball in the paint anytime you want, thus resulting in your turning the ball over. You can stilil do it but you have to make sure your man is open.

Playing cuts against deny is cheesy? If a defender IRL basketball stucks up on you, wouldn't you do the exact same thing?

The only abuse in the deny all tactic is the fact that can be implemented

This thing doesn't really exist irl basketball. It only exists because On-ball CPY plays magnetic/psychic defense. All this grabs/push/pulls are fouls irl.

I can show you tonsof examples irl that I player does a cut after playing denied

Can you show me ANY real life example where any team plays deny all and no help defense on any player?

Even if it WAS cheese is called RE-action. Someone plays something completely unrealistic. Shouldn't I find a way to fight it back?
After all it is THEIR choice (or maybe I sould say your) to play this kind of unrealistic defense. It is not that I choose that they will not provide any rotation
To each it's own I guess.

[harryl]

It's still good enough that Deny All on 4 guys is just not viable if one knows how to deal with it.

I think the best way to do it is to essentially run 4-out. Post up with your Center, bonus if he's a good passer. Then use Quick Plays to call for a cut from one of the guys from the weak side.

Using Quick Plays keeps you more easily in control of your Center. So if your perimeter guy beats his man and your opponent takes his big off your big to stop the cut, it will be very easy for you to immediately shoot with your big.

The fact that you're posting up with your big means that your opponent either has to let the CPU defend your post-up, which gives you an advantage there, or he has to defend it himself, which makes it hard for him to monitor the perimeter for cuts.

You have to be careful about not incurring a 5-second Back to Basket call, but it's not a big deal to just periodically go face-up and then re-post to avoid the foul. If you can get into the "formation" quickly, you can call for at least 2, probably 3 cut attempts in a possession. And if you fail at that, you still have the post-up as a bail-out option.

This has been my go-to tactic for the scoring Moments Challenges. At least against CPU (not saying much), it's OP. And that's with calling for the cut with just one guy, over and over. If you have athletic shooters 1-4, I don't see how a human opponent can stop it, if he's silly to run Deny on all 4.