PSA: Artest and Randolph

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by nnng07

Or someone can mitigate not having Gold Corner Specialist by having both corners be Hot Zones.

I think this is approximately right.

And, actually, the hot zones might be better, because they don't get nullified by a Defensive Stopper.

The one thing I'll say that diminishes Artest is that Pierce has very similar, super-high defensive potential, because his Speed/Acceleration, Strength, Lat Quick, and Contest are all up around Artest's. Worse Steal, but better Block.

But, to me, it's not an either/or. I like the idea of having both. With a few other elite defensive stoppers, then one can have at least five stoppers, maybe with multiple options at each position, during key defensive possessions during games.

[GrimaceZ7]

Quote: Originally Posted by isdatyt

You greatly underestimate the power of badges and hot zones in this game

Not really. Never once have I missed a shot and thought "cold zone." Being comfortable with your players' releases more than compensates for cold zones. Case in point - I'm now starting Ammy Micheal Ray Richardson over PD West and Diamond Magic. Look at his cold zones. I don't hesitate to shoot with him anywhere on the court, and I drop multiple threes with him every game from the top of the arc despite that awful open shot 3 rating.

Aren't the zones + or - 5 rating points? Hard to underestimate the effect when you know exactly what it is.

Badges are cool, and it's better to have badges than not. But I look at players holistically. I get more out of Ammy Richardson than I do PD West, despite West being ridiculous on both sides of the ball according to the ratings and having pretty much every badge in the book.

Quote: Originally Posted by nnng07

I think this is accurate. Some guys are so unique that they are worth looking at even without many badges, because there is no one with more badges similar to them. I also think some badges are equivalent to higher ratings, so the base ratings are still extremely important. For example, the Pick Pocket badge correlates directly to the Steal rating, so someone with a 95 Steal rating and no Pick Pocket badge is likely equivalent to someone with a lower steal rating and a Gold Pick Pocket badge. Or someone can mitigate not having Gold Corner Specialist by having both corners be Hot Zones.

Tendencies play a strong role. If a player has a 55 steal rating, but a very high steal tendency, I give them Gold Pick Pocket, and they get a ton of steals for me. Especially if their foul tendency is low. On-ball and off-ball. I know a lot of people put put Gold Pick Pocket on all their bigs, but when I do that on someone with a low steal tendency, they don't get steals for me regardless of their rating.

[nnng07]

Quote: Originally Posted by GrimaceZ7

Tendencies play a strong role. If a player has a 55 steal rating, but a very high steal tendency, I give them Gold Pick Pocket, and they get a ton of steals for me. Especially if their foul tendency is low. On-ball and off-ball. I know a lot of people put put Gold Pick Pocket on all their bigs, but when I do that on someone with a low steal tendency, they don't get steals for me regardless of their rating.

Definitely agree with this, I think it's always smart to look at tendencies before putting a badge on someone. I generally don't put Tear Dropper on someone with low Floater tendency, Post Spin Technician on someone with low Post Spin tendency, Posterizer on a low driving/flashy dunk tendency guy, etc...

[Scramz718]

Quote: Originally Posted by GrimaceZ7

Not really. Never once have I missed a shot and thought "cold zone." Being comfortable with your players' releases more than compensates for cold zones. Case in point - I'm now starting Ammy Micheal Ray Richardson over PD West and Diamond Magic. Look at his cold zones. I don't hesitate to shoot with him anywhere on the court, and I drop multiple threes with him every game from the top of the arc despite that awful open shot 3 rating. Aren't the zones + or - 5 rating points? Hard to underestimate the effect when you know exactly what it is. Badges are cool, and it's better to have badges than not. But I look at players holistically. I get more out of Ammy Richardson than I do PD West, despite West being ridiculous on both sides of the ball according to the ratings and having pretty much every badge in book.

Just because you haven't thought about it doesn't mean it wasn't a factor. Cold/Hot effect shooting percentages. Getting a cards release down a huge factor too but you'll make more shots from a hot zone than a cold zone.

What's your 3pt % with MRR?

Quote: Originally Posted by GrimaceZ7

Tendencies play a strong role. If a player has a 55 steal rating, but a very high steal tendency, I give them Gold Pick Pocket, and they get a ton of steals for me. Especially if their foul tendency is low. On-ball and off-ball. I know a lot of people put put Gold Pick Pocket on all their bigs, but when I do that on someone with a low steal tendency, they don't get steals for me regardless of their rating.

A cards with low rating, high tendency will attempt to get a lot of steals. So it's smart to add PP because that'll increase their success rate. A card with high rating & low tendency won't get as much steals because they'll won't attempt as much. It work like this for AI controlled player. A user would have more success with the high rating, low tendency card. Most tendencies don't play a role when the user is controlling the player.

[GrimaceZ7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Scramz718

Just because you haven't thought about it doesn't mean it wasn't a factor. Cold/Hot effect shooting percentages. Getting a cards release down a huge factor too but you'll make more shots from a hot zone than a cold zone.

I acknowledged that it was a factor. It's a +/- 5 to shooting atts for hot and cold zones, from what "they" say. I pretty much only shoot when I'm open, and I would never hesitate to shoot with a guy who had a 5 point lower open mid or open 3 than he has.

Hell, last night, I hit threes in back to back games with Ruby Roy Hibbert. I golded the two badges he comes with but didn't add any badges, and I'm pretty sure the two badges he comes with are defensive. And his open 3 has to be horrible. Easy release and wide open, so he drained them. If I realized it was him when I passed to him, I wouldn't have taken the shots. But my point is that if you take wide open shots and you're confident, a five point difference isn't going to have much of an effect at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by Scramz718

What's your 3pt % with MRR?

.370 with the Ammy on my main (a lot of those shots came before I figured out how to use him), .1000 with the Sapphire on my main through 8gp, .430 with the Sapphire on my backup account

Quote: Originally Posted by Scramz718

A cards with low rating, high tendency will attempt to get a lot of steals. So it's smart to add PP because that'll increase their success rate. A card with high rating & low tendency won't get as much steals because they'll won't attempt as much. It work like this for AI controlled player. A user would have more success with the high rating, low tendency card. Most tendencies don't play a role when the user is controlling the player.

Everything you said was true until that last sentence. Tendencies play a pretty significant role when usering a player. It's counterintuitive, but it's true.

[Scramz718]

Quote: Originally Posted by GrimaceZ7

Hell, last night, I hit threes in back to back games with Ruby Roy Hibbert. I golded the two badges he comes with but didn't add any badges, and I'm pretty sure the two badges he comes with are defensive. And his open 3 has to be horrible. Easy release and wide open, so he drained them. If I realized it was him when I passed to him, I wouldn't have taken the shots. But my point is that if you take wide open shots and you're confident, a five point difference isn't going to have much of an effect at all.

The difference can be 1 or 2 makes vs misses. For me that's enough to target players with more hot spots vs cold ones. Shot release is huge and I won't use a player who release I can't get down.

We all seen bad shooter made threes and it happens way too often. A lot of this has to do with low difficulty settings in MT.

Quote: Originally Posted by GrimaceZ7

Everything you said was true until that last sentence. Tendencies play a pretty significant role when usering a player. It's counterintuitive, but it's true.

Key word was most, and it true most don't have a impact when usering a player. The ones like foul/hard foul, dunk, crash and a few do but most don't play a role.

[GrimaceZ7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Scramz718

The difference can be 1 or 2 makes vs misses. For me that's enough to target players with more hot spots vs cold ones. Shot release is huge and I won't use a player who release I can't get down. We all seen bad shooter made threes and it happens way too often. A lot of this has to do with low difficulty settings in MT.

The difference isn't 1 or 2 makes vs misses per game. That would make hot spots OP. And I think the bad shooters making threes is probably equal parts having the release down and difficulty settings.

Quote: Originally Posted by Scramz718

Key word was most, and it true most don't have a impact when usering a player. The ones like foul/hard foul, dunk, crash and a few do but most don't play a role.

Nah, most tendencies still have a strong effect when you're usering the player. I've found that players with a high floater tendency make them a lot easier than players with low floater tendencies. Same with post moves. Same with most tendencies. And that's just noticed effect.

[Scramz718]

Quote: Originally Posted by GrimaceZ7

Nah, most tendencies still have a strong effect when you're usering the player. I've found that players with a high floater tendency make them a lot easier than players with low floater tendencies. Same with post moves. Same with most tendencies. And that's just noticed effect.

I can look at some of my best post players tendencies I see that this isn't the case. Ewing 35 post spin and drop step, those are two of his most affective moves. Russell has a 80 drop step tendency and he doesn't come close to Ewing when it comes to drop steps. Melo's drop step 0 and post spin 5 agin two of his most affective moves in the post. Pippen has a 70 post spin tendency and the move isn't nearly as affective with him. Melo does have a + 16 post control but if those tendencies had a strong effect a + 65 difference would be noticeable.


Those tendencies effect AI behavior not success rate, that's what ratings are for.


Z bo post tendencies are pretty low.