Labbing

[GrimaceZ7]

I get that the main NBA2k forum is the proper place for this, but we seem to have our own sub-community here, so I'm posting it here. We've talked about this in the past, and I've decided to actually do some labbing. 2klabs has their interests, agenda and methodology and it is what it is. They lost me with their "which is the best release?" where they had humans taking 50 shots with several releases and logging the makes and misses to determine that Harden had the best release. There were so many problems with the methodology there that it's hard for me to take them seriously after that.

Anyway, I think my biggest interest is to see definitively if tendencies have an effect on the effectiveness of moves, on animations, and whatever else. I've created a control and a variable player in the roster creator, and I've made them identical (and I can make a whole team or two, if need be). 6'5" 198lb SFs with 99s in every attribute, Jordan shot with Jordan base on Normal release, Normal 1 for all dribble and post moves and shots. I've given both of them all of Diamond Jordan's tendencies as a base. For whatever I/we decide to test, I'll change the relevant attribute(s)/tendency(ies) and do a large enough sample size to get a result. I've got an Elgato, so I can make and upload video.

So what would you guys like to see tested out? Any suggestions and/or input is definitely welcome and appreciated.

[Bubba13laze]

Im interested in what athletic attributes influence dunking ability. This is on my mind since I got diamond Payton. Both the Ruby and the diamond share a 42 driving dunk with identical tendencies. However, my Ruby never dunked in games, only freestyle. And my diamond is jamming it every time instead of attempting layups. This leads me to believe the boost in strength or vertical is responsible..

In terms of tendencies there are a lot of different shot types, for instance, step back, spin jumper... Also fade right vs fade left. How much do those tendencies determine shot percentage? I'm not in front of my game right now but there is probably a lot more I'm curious about. Also increasing and decreasing flashy dunk and regular dunk to see what kind of animations happen.

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bubba13laze

Im interested in what athletic attributes influence dunking ability. This is on my mind since I got diamond Payton. Both the Ruby and the diamond share a 42 driving dunk with identical tendencies. However, my Ruby never dunked in games, only freestyle. And my diamond is jamming it every time instead of attempting layups. This leads me to believe the boost in strength or vertical is responsible..

I think it's commonly accepted, maybe even "known," that Strength and Vertical aid in dunking. And I have the same strong impression as you: Ruby didn't dunk, Diamond dunks a lot...and amidst traffic, even posterizes.

To the point where I think Relentless is now mandatory and maybe even Posterizer.

Which makes the choice pretty tough. I'm thinking:

1. Rim Protector
2. Relentless Finisher
3. Posterizer
4. Bruiser
5. Dreamlike Up & Under
6. Brick Wall or Post Spin Tech or DRD or Limitless

Quote:

In terms of tendencies there are a lot of different shot types, for instance, step back, spin jumper... Also fade right vs fade left. How much do those tendencies determine shot percentage? I'm not in front of my game right now but there is probably a lot more I'm curious about. Also increasing and decreasing flashy dunk and regular dunk to see what kind of animations happen.

Yeah, I think one of the biggest questions with regard to Tendencies, is if a high tendency for, say, Tear Dropper, means that one will complete at higher %.

I think maybe one way to test it as scientifically as possible would be to do the testing with user timing turned off, and let player rating be determinant of shot success. See if there is a consistent and appreciable difference in completion % across a very large number of samples.

EDIT: And Post Fade Left/Right not for left vs. right, but for Post Fades in general is of interest with this new PD Wade. He has elite-for-a-guard 92 Post Fade but ultra-low Post Fade Left/Right Tendencies of 10/15.

Curry has 25/30.

Very clearly an error, but I wonder how consequential it may or may not be.

[Cowboyfan_19]

"Best" release points are all opinionated. I was never a fan of Harden's release personally, just like I'm not a fan of Elgin Baylor's release (his feels twitchy).

Paul George & Battier have the smoothest standing 3 ability to get green from my own personal experience. Again though, completely opinionated.

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cowboyfan_19

"Best" release points are all opinionated. I was never a fan of Harden's release personally, just like I'm not a fan of Elgin Baylor's release (his feels twitchy). Paul George & Battier have the smoothest standing 3 ability to get green from my own personal experience. Again though, completely opinionated.

Yeah, there's a lot of personal preference. I dislike the term, but PG's shot for me is WET. More so than Pierce. Battier I have issues with consistency. And, so far, I shoot really well with Baylor.

[harryl]

This is an apropos thread, I think, to bring up something that I have only recently realized. Probably obvious to a bunch of y'all: David Robinson is bad at drop-steps.

Even when defended by bigs who aren't all that big, I mostly get meh drop-step animations with Robinson when I use the move. I rarely get the really clean animation that results in the defender behind Robinson.

Robinson has 96 Post Control. If Speed/Acceleration matters, nobody is really better than him. And his Strength is 97. And he has Gold Drop-Stepper.

I'm guessing the culprit is either his 235lbs weight, independently, or in how weight maybe pro-rates Strength. Or maybe he just doesn't have good drop-step animations.

Anyone have any firm sense on what characteristics govern aptitude for Drop-Steps?

[GrimaceZ7]

You're giving me great ideas of things to look at.

So far, in looking at things this afternoon, here's what I found:

Euro, Hop Step and Spin Layup and Floater tendencies had no noticeable effect on frequency of animation triggering, percentage of makes, or animation itself.

It had been suggested that Shot Close was the determining att for floaters. My control had a 99 Shot Close, and my variable had a 25. I saw now noticeable difference between them. Next, I tried changing Moving Shot Mid, and that had no noticeable difference either. When I tried Driving Layup, suddenly I was missing about 4/5ths of my floaters.

I then added HOF Tear Dropper and found that I was missing about 75% of my floaters, and of the ~25% I made, I was greening half of them.

I'm going to re-do all of this tomorrow with a larger sample size and turn off user timing.

Also, Post Spin tendency had no noticeable effect on the speed of the animation.

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by GrimaceZ7

Also, Post Spin tendency had no noticeable effect on the speed of the animation.

My expectation is that it would increase the frequency with which one gets the right animation to spin "around the corner" cleanly.