Anyone interested in a playbook thread?

[vannwolfhawk]

Quote: Originally Posted by hikwelity

I've started doing this, but the only detail I can really give is a quick/med/slow scale. I am testing all of these in scrimmage, and most times I am not taking a shot, just running the play 7-8 times in a row to really get a feel for it. There is no shot clock so I don't know exactly how much time it takes, just a feel for how quickly the play develops.

That's exactly what I do. I go and set up user play book 1 and 2 and standard play books with all the plays I want to test (example: all swing plays with best action/ authentic action) then give it to a team and switch up play types for each player to have 1 play type for easy organization when I get into scrimmage mode.

I tested all swing, all cutter plays and dribble handoff plays yesterday... In addition I've tested all flex, unclaimed, and horn sets already as well. I am absolutely loving the plays this year!

I'm going to tweak and add to blazers play book and I finished spurs yesterday. Spurs was fun!

Btw- quick/medium/slow scale is perfect...

[G0DZGiFT]

I missed all this excitement in 2k12 I believe it was but I won't miss out on it this year. Looking forward to your work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Agame]

Quote: Originally Posted by vannwolfhawk

Can you add length of play to the list? I've seen and tested some great plays and very authentic to nba action but sadly to run all the way to the end of the play it takes too long and I end up shooting with 1 second on clock. This is running it perfectly too. Plus I think it's good to have for teams who run quicker plays as opposed to a team who swings the ball, uses a cross screen lets say to hit the post rather than just a quick punch. So teams can play like themselves with quick plays or longer developing ones. But some just take to long. A lot of the euro plays for example. I love the action but had to get rid of a few of them...

I increased Player Speed to 55.....seems to solve most of this(Could be my imagination)

[vannwolfhawk]

Quote: Originally Posted by Agame

I increased Player Speed to 55.....seems to solve most of this(Could be my imagination)

Interesting, I never thought of that. Only thing is I'm not sure id want to play on higher game speed and I'm sure most people don't as well but I'm definitely gonna try this though and see if it works or not.

It makes me think (if this works) if plays are tested at higher speed then what they ship at default, which in turn makes some plays take to long getting into all the options and making it to the last option? Most issues I see is players struggling off ball in awkward animations getting bumped trying to get to their spot where the play can then move into option 2....

[vannwolfhawk]

Ok, so got the following tested...

UCLA
Horns
Triangle
Flex
Swing
Hawk series
Floppy's
Zipper
Spread
Elbow
Dive's
Chin's

I've also separated into categories and picked the best action and best running plays in each category listed above and below. The categories are like this...

Elevator screens
Princeton principles
3pt shooting bigs
Alley oops
Dribble handoffs
Dribble drive / weave action


PNR has it own specific
- top key
- angle
- sideline
- dbl screens
- multiple option pnr
- roll vs pop

3 pt and mid range also has specific
- top key 3
- corner 3
- wing 3
- off down screen
- off staggered screen
- curls


Low post
- off cross screen
- off back screen
- punch
- high/low look
- post with pnr option

High post
- off down screen
- post up
- pnp option


I've gone through pretty much all the plays that I wanted too. I do still want to do all the euro plays though. I've got to say that plays are so well done this year! Czar did in incredible job and I just want to say thank you. Obviously I have not tested these with CPU as far as in scrimmage mode. I use as a user and run every play around 10x.

As great a job as the czar did with plays the teams play books can use some love for a few reasons.

1- even though all the plays work some plays take a tad too long, some have pointless action, or there is just better plays with similar action than what they have.

2- some teams don't play like they do when I play them. I think some of this is tendency issues though but I want to give the CPU attacking plays where if they can't score on initial look they can then get the player they want with the ball still in a good position to score. For example: horns fist 14 high ISO. The 1st look is a down screen for top of key jumper for PF (think Aldridge/Duncan/Garnett) but if they don't get the look they can isolate at the top key without having the ISO play type.

3- making play books more user friendly as far as separating play types down to 1-2 pages per play type. No need to have 10 plays with same action but different names. I pick the best 2 top key pnr with spacing that attack quickly and use those for all teams so users can switch teams and have familiarity.

4- this one is my biggest issue. Making sure each team has the players in proper positions in pnr action. I don't want robin Lopez in corner 3 spot as my drive and kick outlet on a screen play. Each pnr play is specifically picked with personnel behind the reasoning of this play or that play. Obviously lineups change and you could have a 3pt shooting big coming off the bench so ill factor that in.

5- play types - cleaning them up and eliminating unnecessary play types by getting similar action in other plays sets.

6- I'm big on only having a small amount of cutter, ISO, low post, and guard post ups. The reasoning is number 1 you can as a user call quick play in all those. Also, no need to have 7 iso's with 2 that are basically the same. I limit to 3-4 max and some teams just have 1 or 2.


Anyways, now that I got all separated I want to start making some books. So I'd love to hear peoples take on plays they see their favorite team running or let's get some scouting stuff from hikwelity about team specific stuff so we can get these as accurate as possible while still setting teams best players up in best options to score from where they like to score from. I tried getting on synergy the other day but it seems tone done? Is there another place I can go to get similar stats and watch games? Does NBA TV archive games?

Remember there is a million ways to put these play books together. I like an attacking CPU ai. So with all these plays I add the CPU will be deadly from a play standpoint. Then it just comes down to a tendency issue if players are not shooting in spots they should.


Anyways, looking forward to getting started and hearing feedback on team specific stuff from everyone!


Edit: I should also note I apologize for not inputting all this stuff on the google docs. My desktop Mac is in my office so it's faster for me and I'm old school by using pen and paper. I got 30 pages full of notes and what not. I will try and get this down and type them all up at some point.

[vannwolfhawk]

By the way, for anyone who is giving feedback could you somewhat be specific when talking about a team and seeing something. Like for example use the post above as a reference like I saw Portland running some flex, ran a lot of horns, I saw them run some floppys, Lillard was passing then cutting through lane coming off dbl staggered screens, saw them run a few set ally oop plays to batum, they ran some ucla action, zipper, etc.

If a team runs more sets than others I can add let's say 10 horns sets with 1-2-3 in each play type but if they run few floppys but do run them then I might just add 1 or 2 etc.

Breaking it down from either action or original set as the way it looks before starting the play means I can then go to those sets and find best and similar action. I can't get as in depth yet until I can watch more games. A few teams I know pretty well already just from watching pre season a bit but mostly from games last few years. Plus knowing players hot spots and familiarity with where players like to get the ball and shoot helps.

Anyways, just wanted to let everyone know the easy way to scout or give feedback to make it easier. I saw a post earlier saying boat ran some Princeton principles. But I need some more specific info or at least it would be helpful. Can't wait to get some info from hikwelity! If you see this pm me please...

[jattnanga]

i am working on a user friendly spurs (95% done), warriors (90% done) and bulls (very early stages) playbooks based on watching full games.

as you know many teams in the nba are calling less plays and let the spacing in transition dictate what they are running as well as running what i call supersets...for example the warriors are running spurs strong and weak motion directly into horns...and then running triangle on other possessions (mostly using the number 2 pass to the cnr)

so a play call sequence would look like this:
thru quick 12 for klay --> horns away mid iguodala
swing strong quick 2 iguodala --> horns 53 quick klay
swing strong 1 quick fist steph --> horns flex 42 quick klay
tri wing fist 35 iguodala --> 65 elbow 53 give klay (which is a guard squeeze action from the triangle on the post feed which kerr seems to favor over speed cuts in the half court while using speed cuts in transition on quick postups)

i've watched all 3 warriors games and charted all plays as well as looking at their freelance actions to see what we need to have available in the first few pages of the playcall menu to create the perpetual motion that they are running this year. so there are some possession where you would call 3 plays on 24 second possession.

these system based teams dont really call a specific number of midrange plays per se for each of their stars but rather allow the spacing to determine which actions come next and then have their stars break down close outs once an advantage is gained and help rotations are initiated.

of course, there are specials for the go to players, but those don't need to be available at the fingertips like the automatics do.

[hikwelity]

Quote: Originally Posted by vannwolfhawk

That's exactly what I do. I go and set up user play book 1 and 2 and standard play books with all the plays I want to test (example: all swing plays with best action/ authentic action) then give it to a team and switch up play types for each player to have 1 play type for easy organization when I get into scrimmage mode. I tested all swing, all cutter plays and dribble handoff plays yesterday... In addition I've tested all flex, unclaimed, and horn sets already as well. I am absolutely loving the plays this year! I'm going to tweak and add to blazers play book and I finished spurs yesterday. Spurs was fun! Btw- quick/medium/slow scale is perfect...

The Spurs have been running the same stuff for years and years and it's still great even though everyone knows what's coming. I scouted the Blazers twice last year and once or twice the previous year, and I think I like their stuff as much or more than the Spurs. Easily one of my favorite teams to watch, might even run with them this year.

Just so we don't duplicate work here, what are you doing with the plays that you've tested? Do you want to enter them on my Google sheet if I give you access? Are you making playbooks for every team? Or just a few? Or more like user playbooks with the best combined plays?

You are clearly working at a much faster pace than I am, so any work you can save me is helpful.