Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

[vannwolfhawk]

Roster UPDATED: May 30th Under 2019 Season Complete

Playoff Roster UPDATED: May 14th Under PLAYOFF READY - Update #141

How do I do the defensive help sliders for the cpu?

I just did a quick video for everyone after realizing a lot of people might not use this method. You can do the same thing in my league. I have a base playoff set up with every teams adjustments done so I can just hop in anytime. If your doing a quick game it's super easy and fast in setting a game up. It takes a couple minutes as you can see. I could go way deeper with it but wanted to make it quick... Lastly, once you setup your playoff settings make sure you save it to quickly upload it next time... Hope this helps...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqmYKiWl7V0

Here are the updated Sliders for USER VS CPU that I am using with this roster and after all the speed and defensive edits... You will look at some of this as odd but try it. I think it's balanced where you can drive and attack but defensive teams and players stick out. You will see charges, blocking calls, 3 point shot contests and players biting on the pump fake, steals, loose balls, tipped balls, guys diving for loose balls, realistic basketball... This is specific for this roster. I had to tone for CPU players in foul trouble and not being subbed out. You will get calls on drives but also a lot of no calls if it's a bad shot. Players will be swiping on drives as well... Big's will contest as will wings who should. You need to play a smart game... Use PG post up when setting up a play on perimeter. I wanted more freedom of movement on perimeter but inside or on lay-in's it's 50/50 of contact or not. Faster players can take slower players off the dribble as they should but again defensive stoppers and players will stick out. Try playing Pelicans for a taste of it compared to another team. Driving on Covington as opposed to JJ Reddick you will see the difference... Don't spam turbo vs good defenders and try and ride animations out as you will see some charges. It's balanced for getting to the cup and good defense. Just because you can get to the cup doesn't mean an auto bucket either as it's a crap shoot on fouls being called as well as great help defense and contests. I also, really focused on player movement and lateral quickness to eliminate sliding hence the 0 for user in lateral quickness. Eccentric has some great posts on this in slider section. I still wanted some explosiveness and speed off ball with plays and player movement too... I really focused on player movement and lateral quickness to eliminate sliding hence the 0 for user in lateral quickness. Lastly, the shot contests and all the defensive fouls, blocks, and contests have been re scaled. I tested a few things and went 100 for shot contest tendency and block tendency and simmer a few games. The sim stats took down block leaders to realistic numbers but my point in bringing this up is that with them all at 100 (everyone contests almost all shots in NBA including small guards) it was great to play against. I'm still debating putting guards at low scale of 75-80 for this factor alone... It won't effect as much as you think due to their shot blocking and contest attributes. Plus foul calls in a game and balance there was a challenge with it. But it's something to toy with... Let me know how it go's...

These are up on XBOX 1 under HOF 4 Edited Roster - May 30th Set


SLIDERS USER VS CPU

Spoiler

Gameplay Settings
Difficulty - Hall of Fame
Quarter Length - 12 Minutes
Fatigue - On
Injuries - On
Game Speed - 48
Free Throw Difficulty - 50
Shooting Type - Shot Timing
FT Shooting Type - Real Player %
Shot Meter - Off
Shot Feedback - User Preference

Coach Settings
PlayVision - All Plays
PlayVision Display - Full
Offense Playcalling - Off

Controller Settings
Shot Reaction With Intense D - On (User choice)
Defensive Assist With Intense D - 0 (User choice) - Don't go higher then 75

CPU/User


Offense
Inside Shot Success -59/58
Close Shot Success - 56/56
Mid-Range Shot Success - 54/52
3PT Success - 52/50
Layup Success - 59/51
Dunk in Traffic Frequency - 60/55
Dunk in Traffic Success - 92/95
Pass Accuracy - 65 / 65
Alley-Oop Success - 100/100
Contact Shot Success - 59/52
Ball Security - 75/75
Body-Up Sensitivity - 80/90
Pass Speed - 50/55

Defense
Driving Contact Shot Frequency - 100/95
Inside Contact Shot Frequency - 100/100
Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff) - 72/89
Layup Defense Strength (Release) - 90/100
Jump Shot Defense Strength (Gather) - 60/60
Jump Shot Defense Strength (Release) - 70/70
Help Defense Strength - 100/100
Steal Success - 68/68

Attributes
Acceleration - 58/58
Vertical - 49/49
Strength – 50/50
Stamina – 51/51
Speed – 58/58
Durability - 90/90
Hustle – 58/67
Ball Handling – 65/65
Hands – 27/27
Dunking Ability - 50/42
On-Ball Defense – 100/65
Stealing – 58/58
Blocking – 65/49
Offensive Awareness - 44/50
Defensive Awareness – 95/100
Offensive Rebounding - 50/46
Defensive Rebounding – 64/60
Offensive Consistency - 44/44
Defensive Consistency - 95/100
Fatigue Rate – 49/49
Lateral Quickness - 100/0

Tendencies
Take Inside Shots - 50/50
Take Close Shots - 48/50
Take Mid-Range Shots - 49/50
Take 3PT Shots - 50/50
Post Shots - 55/50
Attack the Basket - 55/50
Look for Post Players - 99/99
Throw Alley-Oops - 60/60
Attempt Dunks - 68/44
Attempt Putbacks - 44/44
Play Passing Lanes - 20/15
Go for On-Ball Steals - 100/55
Contest Shots - 100/55
Backdoor Cuts - 0/0

Fouls
Over the Back Foul Frequency - 100/100
Charging Foul Frequency - 100/100
Blocking Foul Frequency - 100/99
Reaching Foul Frequency - 82/47
Shooting Foul Frequency - 46/99
Loose Ball Foul Frequency - 100/100

Movement
Speed with Ball (Max rating) - 59/59
Speed with Ball (Min rating) - 25/25
Acceleration with Ball (Max rating) - 60/60
Acceleration with Ball (Min rating) - 28/28
Speed without Ball (Max rating) - 60/60
Speed without Ball (Min rating) - 27/27
Acceleration without Ball (Max rating) - 61/61
Acceleration without Ball (Min rating) - 30/30

Here is the list for defensive game planning (I'm still working on it and adding to it but it's a start). Used Sim world as a solid base and added and changed a few things from there... Hopefully this works for you guys as I just wanted to get it out there, but hopefully you can see it??? Might have to zoom in a little... LOL!

Defense Gameplan 2K18 Sheet1.pdf

Somehow this thread turned into a roster project for myself that I am sharing with the community. My only concern and goal was gameplay 1st and not sim stats so keep that in mind. I just updated and re-uploaded the roster for all of those that are interested in it and I had a lot of changes in this one. Everything that has been discussed in this thread and more.


xbox 1 - Vannwolfhawk206

Roster Name: Playbooks Done & Edits WIP - Latest File - Update 63

Roster Name: Playoff Ready - Latest File - UPDATED: April 14th


Sliders I Use: HOF USER vs CPU (I Use Speed 51) - Latest File - Update May 6th

Spoiler

Keep in mind sliders are all subjective. I don’t cheese the CPU. I play sim style and run plays (although I will attack & freelance at times and look to break when available). I can livestream a game on twitch now if anyone wants to see them. But these work for me and my style as well as difficulty. They are specific to my roster edit’s as User needs a slight defensive boost because of CPU attacking more, pass to open man higher, etc…. As I get better at the game and play more I will just drop my shot success by 1 in each category… I will also adjust for playoffs to make it slightly tougher…


USER VS CPU Sliders - On XBOX - Vannwolfhawk206 - File Name HOF USER VS CPU

Gameplay Settings
Difficulty - Hall of Fame
Quarter Length - 12 Minutes
Fatigue - On
Injuries - On
Game Speed - 51
Free Throw Difficulty - 50
Shooting Type - Shot Timing
FT Shooting Type - Real Player %
Shot Meter - Off
Shot Feedback - User Preference

Coach Settings
PlayVision - All Plays
PlayVision Display - Full
Offense Playcalling - Off

Controller Settings
Shot Reaction With Intense D - On (User choice)
Defensive Assist With Intense D - 0 (User choice)

CPU/User


Offense
Inside Shot Success -60/59
Close Shot Success - 57/56
Mid-Range Shot Success - 54/52
3PT Success - 52/50
Layup Success - 59/51
Dunk in Traffic Frequency - 60/60
Dunk in Traffic Success - 90/90
Pass Accuracy - 85 / 65
Alley-Oop Success - 100/100
Contact Shot Success - 59/52
Ball Security - 75/75
Body-Up Sensitivity - 100/100
Pass Speed - 50/60

Defense
Driving Contact Shot Frequency - 100/100
Inside Contact Shot Frequency - 100/100
Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff) - 72/72
Layup Defense Strength (Release) - 89/89
Jump Shot Defense Strength (Gather) - 60/60
Jump Shot Defense Strength (Release) - 70/70
Help Defense Strength - 100/100
Steal Success - 70/68

Attributes
Acceleration - 60/60
Vertical - 48/48
Strength – 50/50
Stamina – 51/51
Speed – 58/58
Durability - 90/90
Hustle – 58/67
Ball Handling – 50/50
Hands – 31/31
Dunking Ability - 50/42
On-Ball Defense – 90/63
Stealing – 58/58
Blocking – 51/50
Offensive Awareness - 45/55
Defensive Awareness – 100/100
Offensive Rebounding - 50/46
Defensive Rebounding – 64/60
Offensive Consistency - 43/43
Defensive Consistency - 100/100
Fatigue Rate – 49/49
Lateral Quickness - 28/27

Tendencies
Take Inside Shots - 50/50
Take Close Shots - 48/50
Take Mid-Range Shots - 50/50
Take 3PT Shots - 51/50
Post Shots - 50/50
Attack the Basket - 55/50
Look for Post Players - 95/95
Throw Alley-Oops - 60/60
Attempt Dunks - 67/44
Attempt Putbacks - 44/44
Play Passing Lanes - 28/27
Go for On-Ball Steals - 75/60
Contest Shots - 75/54
Backdoor Cuts - 1/0

Fouls
Over the Back Foul Frequency - 100/100
Charging Foul Frequency - 100/100
Blocking Foul Frequency - 62/99
Reaching Foul Frequency - 84/47
Shooting Foul Frequency - 69/100
Loose Ball Foul Frequency - 100/100

Movement
Speed with Ball (Max rating) - 67/67
Speed with Ball (Min rating) - 27/27
Acceleration with Ball (Max rating) - 66/66
Acceleration with Ball (Min rating) - 26/26
Speed without Ball (Max rating) - 62/67
Speed without Ball (Min rating) - 22/27
Acceleration without Ball (Max rating) - 61/66
Acceleration without Ball (Min rating) - 21/26

Sliders I Use for CPU vs CPU games: HOF CPU VS CPU - Latest File - Update 23

Spoiler

CPU VS CPU Sliders - On XBOX - Vannwolfhawk206 - File Name HOF CPU VS CPU

Gameplay Settings
Difficulty - Hall of Fame
Quarter Length - 12 Minutes
Fatigue - On
Injuries - On
Game Speed - 52
Free Throw Difficulty - 50
Shooting Type - Shot Timing
FT Shooting Type - Real Player %
Shot Meter - Off
Shot Feedback - User Preference

Coach Settings
PlayVision - All Plays
PlayVision Display - Full
Offense Playcalling - Off

Controller Settings
Shot Reaction With Intense D - On (User choice)
Defensive Assist With Intense D - 0 (User choice)

CPU


Offense
Inside Shot Success - 64
Close Shot Success - 60
Mid-Range Shot Success - 57
3PT Success - 52
Layup Success - 64
Dunk in Traffic Frequency - 60
Dunk in Traffic Success - 85
Pass Accuracy - 100
Alley-Oop Success - 100
Contact Shot Success - 64
Ball Security - 75
Body-Up Sensitivity - 10
Pass Speed - 50

Defense
Driving Contact Shot Frequency - 35
Inside Contact Shot Frequency - 100
Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff) - 70
Layup Defense Strength (Release) - 89
Jump Shot Defense Strength (Gather) - 58
Jump Shot Defense Strength (Release) - 70
Help Defense Strength - 100
Steal Success - 50

Attributes
Acceleration - 61
Vertical - 47
Strength – 0
Stamina – 51
Speed – 56
Durability - 85
Hustle – 70
Ball Handling – 50
Hands – 35
Dunking Ability - 50
On-Ball Defense – 60
Stealing – 50
Blocking – 10
Offensive Awareness - 44
Defensive Awareness – 50
Offensive Rebounding - 50
Defensive Rebounding – 50
Offensive Consistency - 64
Defensive Consistency - 85
Fatigue Rate – 49
Lateral Quickness - 41

Tendencies
Take Inside Shots - 50
Take Close Shots - 50
Take Mid-Range Shots - 50
Take 3PT Shots - 50
Post Shots - 50
Attack the Basket - 55
Look for Post Players - 99
Throw Alley-Oops - 75
Attempt Dunks - 65
Attempt Putbacks - 44
Play Passing Lanes - 29
Go for On-Ball Steals - 47
Contest Shots - 54
Backdoor Cuts - 10

Fouls
Over the Back Foul Frequency - 100
Charging Foul Frequency - 100
Blocking Foul Frequency - 60
Reaching Foul Frequency - 51
Shooting Foul Frequency - 70
Loose Ball Foul Frequency - 100

Movement
Speed with Ball (Max rating) - 80
Speed with Ball (Min rating) - 30
Acceleration with Ball (Max rating) - 72
Acceleration with Ball (Min rating) - 32
Speed without Ball (Max rating) - 75
Speed without Ball (Min rating) - 30
Acceleration without Ball (Max rating) - 72
Acceleration without Ball (Min rating) - 32

ALL Teams Completed

Note: Every team and player has been scaled in every Tendency. The only thing I need to do is small tweaks and testing where I will need to adjust the contested mid and 3 pt jumpers depending on what I'm seeing with box scores and if guys are pulling up shots they should or shouldn't... I will look through and fine comb some things but it's pretty close to ready for me for my league... Very little attributes were touched at all minus a few things for players who needed a boost. Only real attributes that were touched were some shot IQ (for a few select guys), Draw Fouls (Sonic's), Pass Accuracy, Pass Vision, Pass IQ, Pass Perception (Sonic's), Block & Shot contest (Sonic's)... Everything else was all tendencies for gameplay... I still need to tweak play types a bit and some playbooks as well... Free Agents have not been done. If players get added to a team (I play with real life trades 30 team control) then I will just edit the player then. I'm just ready to play and should have all the minor tweaks done by this weekend or the next week.


Here is a list of everything that has been done so far...

Spoiler

Playbooks & Play Types
All sig shots up to date From Sig Shot Thread
POE's Done
All advanced rotations done
Badges Added
CAP's Added
All Coaches & Staff's edited
List of Help Defense Slider tweaks for each team (This is a huge difference in CPU defensive play) - Go between 75-99 depending on team. In play now you can switch controller and adjust their help defense slider then go back to your team and it will stick...
All Players Hot Zones Done - Used Sonic's research here

Tendencies Done

1. Fast Break Edits Globally fixed (Transition Spot Up vs Cut)
2. Dribble Right/Left Globally fixed
3. Driving dribble moves removed Globally (minus a couple)
4. Post moves Globally done & favoring players dominant shooting shoulder with Fades & Hooks
5. All post moves scaled to 100
6. All Post & Face up's balanced to 100 scale
7. Passing Vision, IQ, Pass to Open man all redone league & player wide
8. All touches adjusted for every team
9. Triple Threat Jab, Pump Fake, & Idle all globally scaled using 100 scale
10. Finishing moves on the drive (player specific synergy data) added
11. All Step Back Jumpers for players (player specific synergy data) who use them from 2016 & 2017 stats
12. All Pull-Up Jumpers for players who use them from 2016 & 2017 stats for...
    - Transition
    - Mid
    - 3 Pt.
13. All Floaters globally eliminated minus guys who use them
14. All Players Drive tendencies off synergy data from 2016 & 2017
    - Driving
    - Spin
    - Euro
    - Hop
15. All the no dribble moves scaled & put higher globally
16. All Iso's for superstars scaled higher to see more ISO's in game
17. All Teams & Players Play discipline scaled & edited specific to player or position
18. Used Sonic's draw fouls, fouls, steal, block & reach in attributes league wide
19. Aggressive backdown eliminated and ZERO'd out to eliminate the post drive glitch
20. All Players & teams Size Up's scaled to 100 between...
    - Size-Up
    - Hesitation
    - No Set Up Move
21. All roll vs pop globally done
22. A few players got an attribute upgrade like Jaylen Brown, Tobias Harris, etc...
23. All other Edits were to dial in certain players and balancing after testing CPU vs CPU and USER vs CPU games...
24. All Finish Strong tendencies scaled and redone
25. Alley Oop’s recipient & passing oop’s done including passing bigs
26. All Step Thru Shots
27. BIG edit to Drive Tendencies (Drive, Spot Up Drive, & Off Screen Drive) using data from 2016 & 2017 seasons... https://stats.nba.com/players/drives...t=DRIVES&dir=1
28. Close Shots globally edited to eliminate the 4 foot jumpers with guys in your face as well as the guards pulling up for 4 foot jumpers with a wide open lane and lay-up opportunity. You will now see more finishes or floaters for guards...
29. All Contested jumpers have been re-scaled (35-0) using synergy stats... http://stats.nba.com/players/shots-c...PerMode=Totals
30. Hook Shots fixed to turn to the shoulder not the hand - Opposite of what you would think and same as the shoulder for fades...

A few team specific notes:

You will notice with the Rockets, Thunder, & Raptors I went high touches for the Centers Valanciunas, Capella, & Adams as they just have P&R Man assigned as their play type and all these teams are high in P&R so this will get some more PNR action with these teams...

For the Rockets you will hardly see any mid range shots as I wanted them to play as they do IRL with 3 point shots and inside shots. They will still take a few and I didn't eliminate it but you should see a huge difference here between other teams.



That's all I can think of for now, but not much else to dial in except a few small tweaks to players personalities and balancing shots or drives off spot up's or off screens. After I dialed everything in I locked down a slider set and took it into my league and playoffs mode last night while editing all the teams help defense sliders. I am not sure I have ever had this much fun playing 2k minus me and my brothers wars in the early 2000's! It really plays a beautiful game of basketball. The CPU is no joke and I don't feel cheated at all. You really have to lock in for the full game or before you know it your down 15. I got routed by 20 plus 3-4x last night and loved every second of it. I play on HOF with CPU shooting sliders higher & all the CPU defensive sliders maxed for the most part, but I never felt cheated in any way as it was either my mistakes or just a great play by the CPU. I might have missed picking up a man in transition, went under screen to early & CPU went the other way and took what I gave them, they would drive & kick, make the extra pass, etc. It was really fun and extremely challenging! Like I said I have never played a 2k game that was this competitive without tweaking sliders to make the CPU more unrealistic than anything.

Anyways, I'm close to done with my roster so I can get started in a my league by thanksgiving and enjoy the game the rest of basketball season. Most all the changes were universal and then some player specific edits strictly for gameplay purposes. I have no idea how they play out in a sim? I did sim 5x last night though and things looked pretty good for me, but I'm not as picky compared to others here. I play a 1 year 82 game season with 12 minute quarters and I'll play with 1 team from the East & one from the West so it's all the time I have to get a full season in. So, I don't really care about the depth in multiple years, but I just wanted to give a disclaimer if you are using this roster as far as the sim stats go. I have said this before, but I am not a roster maker with the intent to be perfect or share any of this. I have been editing my own roster ever since I can remember. I still have things to fine tune but for ME it's playing a great game of basketball that mimics what we see on tv and thats all I care about along with making a ultra competitive yet realistic CPU and AI to keep me in the immersion of a game. I want to see players use their real life moves, be unpredictable, hit the open man, etc... I hope whoever uses this roster enjoys it even if it's just for play now games or for using it for just something different until the real roster makers release their files... I know I am enjoying the H@@L out of it... I can't wait to get a my league started and hopefully lose some games and struggle to get in the playoffs! LOL

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

Original Post


Post Moves - Fade Right / Fade Left

I posted about this years ago and it hasn't changed. It has always bugged me. I'm curious if you roster makers edit this? But the Post fade right and left ratings are backwards. When attempting a fadeaway, players 90% of the time fade to their shooting hand shoulder. So, if I'm right handed I tend to go fade away to my right shoulder as it's a more natural move footwork wise. Fading away to my left is not only awkward but very hard to create space to get a good shot off. 2K has this backwards. They have the opposite shoulder with a higher tendency. I saw a lot of the same thing with hook shots as well. It just looks bad in game and so much better when changed to the correct way.

Shot fakes and jab steps are too low imo. Almost every time a player catches a pass in real life the 1st thing they do is shot fake before driving. In 2k you don't see it as much.

Dribble moves on a drive or off a PNR ruin immersion for me when they start all this and 1 garbage on a drive. Outside of a size up before making your move I don't like seeing anything but a basic crossover on drives unless using a stepback jumper or a euro step in finishing. When talking about euro steps classic team players should all have 0 in this move. All this just translates into realism and makes the CPU play & game play look so much better imo..

I know all you guys have your plethora of edits you do to make the game and players come to life, but what universal edits bug you the most and what do you think is a must have edit outside of players playing like themselves for realism?

[SonicMage]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

I posted about this years ago and it hasn't changed. It has always bugged me. I'm curious if you roster makers edit this? But the Post fade right and left ratings are backwards. When attempting a fadeaway, players 90% of the time fade to their shooting hand shoulder. So, if I'm right handed I tend to go fade away to my right shoulder as it's a more natural move footwork wise. Fading away to my left is not only awkward but very hard to create space to get a good shot off. 2K has this backwards. They have the opposite shoulder with a higher tendency. I saw a lot of the same thing with hook shots as well. It just looks bad in game and so much better when changed to the correct way.

First of all, you're not completely correct. There are a few players known for having killer post fadeaways off their non-shooting shoulders and use them quite frequently, such as Melo, Dirk, and Z-Bo. I'm pretty sure Wiggins does, too.

But I want to ask you, are you 100% positive that the "Left" and "Right" in those tendencies stand for Left and Right turning shoulder, as opposed to Left and Right block, where they are shooting the shot? The latter definition would be more consistent with every other tendency where they have a Left vs. Right as two separate tendencies. Just checking to make sure you've tested it.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

First of all, you're not completely correct. There are a few players known for having killer post fadeaways off their non-shooting shoulders and use them quite frequently, such as Melo, Dirk, and Z-Bo. I'm pretty sure Wiggins does, too.

But I want to ask you, are you 100% positive that the "Left" and "Right" in those tendencies stand for Left and Right turning shoulder, as opposed to Left and Right block, where they are shooting the shot? The latter definition would be more consistent with every other tendency where they have a Left vs. Right as two separate tendencies. Just checking to make sure you've tested it.

I'm not saying people don't use them. But %'s no. I tested with putting Left at 0 and right at 100 (For Right handed shooter) and yes it worked as intended. I'd have to see Dirk & Z-Bo using these moves going to the opposite shoulder. Have any video proof? I'm not talking face up's...

Here is Dirk Fadeaway's going to Right Shoulder... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXauvL75rdY

Z-Bo Going to his left...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyUbTltTTrM

And I'm talking post MOVES tendencies...

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

Here is more of a sample size with Randolph...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TY4d5jVOPw

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

As a general rule I drop down shooting off dribble and mid/3 pt shooting/fadeaways for bigs that shouldnt do it. Ever. I hate seeing Dwight pulling from 12 feet.

Westbrook and LBJ's spot up shooting is too high and Im going to drop them way down.

Also, players don't dunk enough. I don't want everyone looking like prime VC, but Deandre Jordan should be dunking when he catches passes unguarded underneath. Ive got the CPU dunk tendency at 100 and that has solved it. Although I will probably drop it back it to 80.

Also Im seeing too many players do powerful dunks off 2 feet, so Ill be in people's dunk packages a lot more this year.

[SonicMage]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

I'm not saying people don't use them. But %'s no. I tested with putting Left at 0 and right at 100 (For Right handed shooter) and yes it worked as intended. I'd have to see Dirk & Z-Bo using these moves going to the opposite shoulder. Have any video proof? I'm not talking face up's...

Here is Dirk Fadeaway's going to Right Shoulder... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXauvL75rdY

Z-Bo Going to his left...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyUbTltTTrM

And I'm talking post MOVES tendencies...

We have the stats for post moves for the past 12 years, courtesy of Synergy...

In 2016-17, Carmelo shot:

76 left shoulder fadeaways
21 right shoulder fadeaways

Aldridge shot:

27 left shoulder fadeaways
105 right shoulder fadeaways

Dirk shot:

16 left shoulder fadeaways
68 right shoulder fadeaways

Wiggins shot:

44 left shoulder fadeaways
50 right shoulder fadeaways

And for good measure, Kobe in 2008-09 shot:

82 left shoulder fadeaways
62 right shoulder fadeaways

As you know, all these guys are right-handed. So obviously different players favor different shoulders for fadeaways, and it's not a given for any particular player.

Now, I can show you videos on all of these if you want, Synergy provides links to the video clips in sequence for any of these stats, just like NBA.com does. Unless you have a subscription, I'll have to dig them up on NBA.com.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

We have the stats for post moves for the past 12 years, courtesy of Synergy...

In 2016-17, Carmelo shot:

76 left shoulder fadeaway
21 right shoulder fadeaways

Aldridge shot:

27 left shoulder fadeaways
105 right shoulder fadeaways

Dirk shot:

16 left shoulder fadeaways
68 right shoulder fadeaways

Wiggins shot:

44 left shoulder fadeaways
50 right shoulder fadeaways

And for good measure, Kobe in 2008-09 shot:

82 left shoulder fadeaways
62 right shoulder fadeaways

As you know, all these guys are right-handed. So obviously different players favor different shoulders for fadeaways, and it's not a given for any particular player.

Now, I can show you videos on all of these if you want, Synergy provides links to the video clips in sequence for any of these stats, just like NBA.com does. Unless you have a subscription, I'll have to dig them up on NBA.com.

Yes of course, I have synergy access too. Obviously different players use them and at best sparingly, but the majority no and I'm pretty sure those stats will back me up. It's a difficult move. Guys like Melo, Kobe, & Wiggins automatically stand out when I think about going to the opposite shoulder. I'd be more interested in your average Joe with average athleticism. It was a move they perfected and worked on, but they are not your normal players either. I think those are extreme examples. It's the same thing with right hook vs left hook as well.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

In all fairness I just went in and looked at the current player ratings. I had not really looked to in depth as I was enamored with playbooks. When I looked at the ratings in depth it was with the classic teams and if you look at those they were horrible. But looking at the current rosters they have them rated in the right direction. Might just be a tad high to the opposite side for my liking. To me its also the shot animation each bring out. Going off the right shoulder looks way better imo... When guys like Kobe did it they would still create space by jumping back. But to each their own...

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

Everybody keeping it close to the vest and everyone has the secret sauce huh, but no one wants to share it... LOL & SMH!

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

Here's something Ive just noticed. I like editing to create seperation between players. Basically good players feel good, great feel great, bad feel bad.

I dropped some of the defensive ratings of the Mavs guards (on ball, PNR IQ, def. con). What I can confirm is that this talks to the iso tendencies of the AI. I was just playing against Kemba who has a high iso rating against poor defenders. And he went iso 5 times in the first quarter. This is a cool tendency, but was overdone.

So Im going to either raise my guards def attributes back to default or reduce stars iso tendencies.

[reeboyfresh23]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

Post tendency for players are not working in a few categories. Aggressive back down creates post drives even
If you lower post drive to zero. Regular back down doesn't work at all. The player will just keep going into post up then out of post up over and over again. Kills any fun playing with classic teams with back to the basket players.

[vtcrb]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

Everybody keeping it close to the vest and everyone has the secret sauce huh, but no one wants to share it... LOL & SMH!

Shooting tendencies
Drive the lane
Attack
Dish to open man

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

Shooting tendencies
Drive the lane
Attack
Dish to open man

I agree, but I'm looking for specific reasoning although kind of obvious with those. Id add to that dish to open man though as it's crucial in PNR scenarios and too low IMO with some PG's who don't make the read and especially with a few of the plays I added for each team that require a PG to drive hard then kick back to the fill man/shooter. The top PG's with higher passer ratings will make the pass where a lot won't. This is the NBA and most guys can run a play knowing the options in it. It also effects players making the skip pass, PNPop pass, and hammer passes. Going back to the PNR and attacking that you mentioned this also ties into the annoying and 1 dribble moves coming off PNR's. It gets too wonky at times. The other thing that seems tricky with balance is play discipline. If a guy is wide open in a play I want certain players shooting those shots instead of always running through the play. But I don't want that all the time and with certain guys so again balance with shot contest and open has to tie in I'm assuming? I'm curious where that happy medium is there...

I know a lot of you guys who have been studying and testing this game for years usually have your formulas and set numbers locked in with scales. I wouldn't even know where to begin. All I do is test and go off of feel tip I get a team right. I will say this though, I have always loved and used DC's old dribbling edits scale he did years ago of moves being 0-5-10-15-20-25, etc. Always got good great results with those edits.

On a side note I got a question, can someone go into detail on the coaching sliders specifically the Guards-Forwards & Inside-Outside? I am not sure which way to go? Just when I think I get it I'll look at a few teams and go that can't be right! Then I don't understand it... LOL! Is it for subs? Play calls favored towards players?

[J9mils]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

I agree, but I'm looking for specific reasoning although kind of obvious with those. Id add to that dish to open man though as it's crucial in PNR scenarios and too low IMO with some PG's who don't make the read and especially with a few of the plays I added for each team that require a PG to drive hard then kick back to the fill man/shooter. The top PG's with higher passer ratings will make the pass where a lot won't. This is the NBA and most guys can run a play knowing the options in it. It also effects players making the skip pass, PNPop pass, and hammer passes. Going back to the PNR and attacking that you mentioned this also ties into the annoying and 1 dribble moves coming off PNR's. It gets too wonky at times. The other thing that seems tricky with balance is play discipline. If a guy is wide open in a play I want certain players shooting those shots instead of always running through the play. But I don't want that all the time and with certain guys so again balance with shot contest and open has to tie in I'm assuming? I'm curious where that happy medium is there...

I know a lot of you guys who have been studying and testing this game for years usually have your formulas and set numbers locked in with scales. I wouldn't even know where to begin. All I do is test and go off of feel tip I get a team right. I will say this though, I have always loved and used DC's old dribbling edits scale he did years ago of moves being 0-5-10-15-20-25, etc. Always got good great results with those edits.

On a side note I got a question, can someone go into detail on the coaching sliders specifically the Guards-Forwards & Inside-Outside? I am not sure which way to go? Just when I think I get it I'll look at a few teams and go that can't be right! Then I don't understand it... LOL! Is it for subs? Play calls favored towards players?

First off I wanted to tell you how great your playbook edits are. This is a thread that should be kept alive and active. With your playbooks and some tweaks to tendencies I am seeing a huge difference in gameplay. Overall pace and flow is amazing. Couple things Ive found to add to the thread which Have seen are game changers.

No dribble moves tendency and no set up dribble. dropped to 0 for everyone- might think this is abad thing and now the cpu will be break out the and 1 mixtape right? Actually no. Thing is most players who don't dribble have 0s across the board anyway and most players have low numbers in dribble categories anyway. What is does though is unhinge the cpu and allow them more ways to create space in a given opportunity. Even a guy like kyrie who i bumped up a little in each and who problem has the highest dribble tendency in the game doesnt go crazy. Yes once in a while he'll try and do a lil too much and turn it over but thats realistic and it doesn't happen as much as you would teveryonest times he does on or two moves combined with a setup to get to paint or create space just like The real kyrie but the n you'll also from time to time get one of those spectacular crossover drives kyrie is know for and boy does it like pretty.( Crossover left to right then go behind the back into a spin lay up AND get the foul. Just beautiful.) Also seeing more variety in the pick in rolls with guys, step backs, splitting, overall just better movements and quicker decisions where its not so vanilla and easy to guard like before.

Also drpped play discipline to 40 for everyone and gonna be dropping the take contested mid/3 to 50-75. It just doesn't translate well. 2k overdid it with such high numbers. Steph just chucks up shoots and just makes most players and teams waaay to easy to defend. And I know Steph chucks it up in teal life but a team like GS is also known to make the extra pass, got tired of seeing steph catch and chuck heavily defened when a open KD is literally 10 feet from the side of him wide open in the corner. Also stops the stupid drive and pull up mid range heavily contested when the drive is open or lightly to moderately protected from happening so much.

And of course the things like open man tendency, finish hard on drive and drive tendency. Have you found a good balance for these 3 for most players? Combined with the others like off screen drive, spot up etc etc.

My main goal is to make the cpu less predictable and harder to defend. I want to be punish for my mistakes not bailed out. So far I feel like im getting close to perfect with your playbooks and tweaks. But still couple things like take 6ft jumpetrs and im still getting the drive and pause stationary dribble while surrounded things sometimes. Again thanks for your work on the plays and whatever you can share is appreciated.

[talucchesi]

Re: Tendency edits that are game changers for realism?

Van, are you gonna post your tendency edits somewhere? (spreadsheet, blog, etc). I',m using ciaco's rosters and I'm not sure he'll update his all in one roster with your tendency changes so I was just gonna do them mentally. I hate seeing players hold the ball doing nothing at the top of the key