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ATD based Roster - Sheitan Project - Next Gen

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Old 04-20-2021, 06:45 AM   #1
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ATD based Roster - Sheitan Project - Next Gen

Hey 2K Community ! First of all, I would like to introduce myself. I am French, NBA fan for more than a decade now. I work in trading for years so I am pretty good with data analysis, statistics. CelticLG has done an amazing work with his roster Attention To Detail (ATD) with others contributors and I want to thank them all.

For a year now, I am playing MyLeague/MyNBA based on the ATD roster. Mainly on CPU vs CPU (12min Quarter) where I am constantly doing adjustments of players tendencies, global sliders. From my point of view and based on the multiple hours of backtesting I found out weird behaviour in the post game, the decision making of ball handlers, the ball usage rate among a CPU team.

That’s where I will bring major updates that will completely change the game, by improving the CPU decision making and the general gameplay.

In addition, I want to correct the players ratings and the model behind to define it, because of some significant discrepancies. On that matter I would like to bring a statistical point of view of players ratings, based on a “normal distribution” which is a fundamental principle in our world. To make it simple, average players (50% of the pool) should be between 77 and 79, 25% below 76 and 25% above 80.

Player rating concept :
Spoiler


In that way, with the changes in tendencies and ratings if you plan to multiple seasons you will have scenarios like Jeramy Grant who was a role player at the Nuggets became FP at the Pistons but he should not be a 85+. Also, player potential should be lower and players evolution over time should be limited to be closer to the reality, and not having too many 80+ players.

Player rating issues - Explanations & examples :
Spoiler



Project : I will be honest with you guys, I work a lot and therefore I don’t have that much free time to do all the changes myself, but I gathered enough information to offer you an amazing and realistic basketball game. If some people can help to build the roster that would be really appreciated. We can create it step by step.

Road Map :
1. I will do the major tendencies update this week based on the scenario of jparks85 (ATD last update) and also the sliders.
2. Player ratings & CelticLG formula improvement
3. Tendencies update to make players unique based on statistical data (hook, fadeaway, ...)



Tendencies :
Spoiler


Sliders :
Spoiler


Players Rating : On-going
Spoiler


MyNBA sliders & special processes :
Spoiler


Current issues & To be improved :
Spoiler


Thanks a lot for reading me, if you have questions or remarks feel free to share. Also if you want to be part of this project you can !
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:34 AM   #2
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Re: ATD based Roster - Sheitan Project - Next Gen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheitan
Hey 2K Community ! First of all, I would like to introduce myself. I am French, NBA fan for more than a decade now. I work in trading for years so I am pretty good with data analysis, statistics. CelticLG has done an amazing work with his roster Attention To Detail (ATD) with others contributors and I want to thank them all.

For a year now, I am playing MyLeague/MyNBA based on the ATD roster. Mainly on CPU vs CPU (12min Quarter) where I am constantly doing adjustments of players tendencies, global sliders. From my point of view and based on the multiple hours of backtesting I found out weird behaviour in the post game, the decision making of ball handlers, the ball usage rate among a CPU team.

That’s where I will bring major updates that will completely change the game, by improving the CPU decision making and the general gameplay.

In addition, I want to correct the players ratings and the model behind to define it, because of some significant discrepancies. On that matter I would like to bring a statistical point of view of players ratings, based on a “normal distribution” which is a fundamental principle in our world. To make it simple, average players (50% of the pool) should be between 77 and 79, 25% below 76 and 25% above 80.

Player rating concept :


In that way, with the changes in tendencies and ratings if you plan to multiple seasons you will have scenarios like Jeramy Grant who was a role player at the Nuggets became FP at the Pistons but he should not be a 85+. Also, player potential should be lower and players evolution over time should be limited to be closer to the reality, and not having too many 80+ players.

Player rating issues - Explanations & examples :



Project : I will be honest with you guys, I work a lot and therefore I don’t have that much free time to do all the changes myself, but I gathered enough information to offer you an amazing and realistic basketball game. If some people can help to build the roster that would be really appreciated. We can create it step by step.

Road Map :
1. I will do the major tendencies update this week based on the scenario of jparks85 (ATD last update) and also the sliders.
2. Player ratings & CelticLG formula improvement
3. Tendencies update to make players unique based on statistical data (hook, fadeaway, ...)



Tendencies :


Sliders :


Players Rating : On-going


MyNBA sliders & special processes :


Current issues & To be improved :


Thanks a lot for reading me, if you have questions or remarks feel free to share. Also if you want to be part of this project you can !


Phenomenal info!

Quick question,
Are you aware of the default setting for both teams where each team's freelance is set to "Pound the Ball Inside"?
You have to change both teams to "Auto" at beginning of the game and wait for one possession before the game recognizes the change. Also, at the start of each half, the non-user-controlled team must be changed again as they revert to "Pound the Ball Inside" each quarter. You do not need to change the user-controlled team.

Three other areas which make a HUGE difference in gameplay are

ISO Tendencies ( many teams have WAY TOO MANY players with ISO tendencies despite not being ISO guys

Transition Spot-Up vs Cut - Many players are way off by default in this area, as Shooters should be MAX 95 for example, and Rim Runners who don't shoot or Bigs should be 0

Roll vs Pop - These need to be cleaned up across the board as many are already correct but this years data should be included



Also, the Playbooks and Play-Types are VITAL to proper gameplay. Many teams are missing "Cutter" plays in their playbook despite guys like Clint Capela cutting for Alley-Oops etc. Many player types include the 3PT play type (for example = Brandon Ingram) despite not being a higher volume 3PT shooter. That changes the offense gameplay tremendously if edited correctly.

Finally, Coach POE play a big part in simulation as well as each Head Coach and Assistant Coach grade and System Proficiency (In the "Edit Coach" menu)
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Old 04-20-2021, 11:17 AM   #3
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Re: ATD based Roster - Sheitan Project - Next Gen

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjt8405
Phenomenal info!

Quick question,
Are you aware of the default setting for both teams where each team's freelance is set to "Pound the Ball Inside"?
You have to change both teams to "Auto" at beginning of the game and wait for one possession before the game recognizes the change. Also, at the start of each half, the non-user-controlled team must be changed again as they revert to "Pound the Ball Inside" each quarter. You do not need to change the user-controlled team.
Great news I was not aware but for sure I will do it !

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjt8405

Three other areas which make a HUGE difference in gameplay are

ISO Tendencies ( many teams have WAY TOO MANY players with ISO tendencies despite not being ISO guys
Indeed I forgot to mention that "player tendencies" related to Isolation are also way too high like Harden having 99 everywhere, it will trigger so many isolation when he does not do it that often per possession, especially now that he plays at Brooklyn.

If you are talking about the playtype, in general the ATD Roster does a correction where not that many players have isloation in their playtype.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjt8405
Transition Spot-Up vs Cut - Many players are way off by default in this area, as Shooters should be MAX 95 for example, and Rim Runners who don't shoot or Bigs should be 0

Roll vs Pop - These need to be cleaned up across the board as many are already correct but this years data should be included

Also, the Playbooks and Play-Types are VITAL to proper gameplay. Many teams are missing "Cutter" plays in their playbook despite guys like Clint Capela cutting for Alley-Oops etc. Many player types include the 3PT play type (for example = Brandon Ingram) despite not being a higher volume 3PT shooter. That changes the offense gameplay tremendously if edited correctly.
Are you talking about the original 2K Roster or the ATD ? Because from my point of view that's pretty good in the ATD on those 3 topics. For instance each playbook contains the maximum number of system which is 50 and the balance seems quite ok.
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Old 04-20-2021, 11:51 AM   #4
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Re: ATD based Roster - Sheitan Project - Next Gen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheitan
Great news I was not aware but for sure I will do it !

Indeed I forgot to mention that "player tendencies" related to Isolation are also way too high like Harden having 99 everywhere, it will trigger so many isolation when he does not do it that often per possession, especially now that he plays at Brooklyn.

If you are talking about the playtype, in general the ATD Roster does a correction where not that many players have isloation in their playtype.



Are you talking about the original 2K Roster or the ATD ? Because from my point of view that's pretty good in the ATD on those 3 topics. For instance each playbook contains the maximum number of system which is 50 and the balance seems quite ok.
This definitely changes the gameplay and in my opinion changes the strength of both the Tendencies and Slider changes. The AI will look to move the ball around more with the setting changed to "Auto"


I was referencing the 2K Default Roster. Just was making a general list of important things to look out for.

I think what is important to note is that no one community-wide really knows how to effectively change the Tendencies completely for the better. We do not know the under the hood coding in which the 2K scales are built off of. We can all try and get them close to realistic, but the true test is trying to build proper tendencies off default sliders and work from there in my opinion. As someone who has deep knowledge of the player tendencies, I'll say that it is a long process to edit, but even the slightest wrong tweaking of one area can completely mess up gameplay.

Looking forward to this completed project as I'll definitely be checking it out
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Old 04-20-2021, 05:17 PM   #5
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Re: ATD based Roster - Sheitan Project - Next Gen

I wish u had a ps4, the Atd roster i released has all 522 players rated for this season and included your post tendency changes. I do have a spreadsheet with everything player stats and shot location tendency I didn't release yet but your research is on point bro for sure some of the changes are very noticeable and personally you helped solved some of the issues I couldn't figure out yet with the post play. Thanks for your research brother
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Old 04-29-2021, 04:32 AM   #6
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Re: ATD based Roster - Sheitan Project - Next Gen

Any update on this mon friere?
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Old 05-04-2021, 11:41 AM   #7
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Re: ATD based Roster - Sheitan Project - Next Gen

Hey Man, I love your work. Very detailed and constructive with examples/reasons and very well written. You touched on a few things that I have questioned through some testing such as shot type tendencies being 99 possibly trumping other tendencies, mainly the 3pt spot up/off screen/pull up etc.

I also like the lower contact/defense strength sliders, I've been doing tests with lowering those as well as lowering shot success sliders to go with them in gameplay and have had some success. With that, I do have some questions:

- How have fouls/free throw attempts been effected with your much lower values in contact and defense strength?

- With steal tendencies lowered, are you still getting realistic turnover balance? (I find this hard to get this high enough on average as is so may be kind of a mute point lol)

- As far as ratings go, I think the bell curve idea is what Celticlg was going for in the ATD roster, but in your findings you suggested the intangibles at 99. Would you recommend keeping intangibles at 99 across the board and then build the overalls around that to help create that balance with everyone on a "level playing field" so to speak?

- With the ratings system, have you found anything in regards to player progression/regression over time? I know that has been one of the major balances trying to be accomplished within the community.

- And last is more niche area but, have you by chance found anything in sliders as it relates to player lock? There's a small group of us that prefer that if we can find a good balance, but 2K seems to try and break teammate ai so I'm curious if you have found anything that effects teammate AI (Shooting mainly, I have yet to find a ton of rhyme or reason to user ai fg%) on player lock either negative or positive.

Thanks for the insights, im going to look into some things based on your explanations above.
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Old 05-04-2021, 11:43 AM   #8
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Re: ATD based Roster - Sheitan Project - Next Gen

Also, you should connect with Celticlg directly and share some of your findings/collaborate. I think these results could really take the ATD roster to the next level!
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