HISTORICAL problem in the foul system

[duce]

Quote: Originally Posted by devroyce

And here is the second game (this time I lost & got BEATDOWN BADLY in my worst loss ever! Lol) but after more edits (still need a decrease in steals numbers but better than what I was getting weeks ago): -User (IND): 25 Team Fouls Non Shooting Fouls: 13 Shooting Fouls: 12 (1 on the perimeter) Reaching Fouls: 10 Blocking Fouls: 1 Illegal Pick: 0 Over the Back Fouls: 1 Loose Ball Fouls: 1 Clear Path Fouls: 0 Flagrant Fouls: 0 Intentional Fouls: 0 -Cpu (CAVS): 19 Team Fouls Non Shooting Fouls: 8 Shooting Fouls: 11 (1 on the perimeter) Reaching Fouls: 2 Blocking Fouls: 4 Illegal Pick: 1 Over the Back Fouls: 0 Loose Ball Fouls: 1 Clear Path Fouls: 0 Flagrant Fouls: 0 Intentional Fouls: 0 Attachment 151512

Are alot of the reach-in fouls occurring on the perimeter, in the paint, in switches? For the user team, is it occurring more by the USER or the CPU teammates?

I'm currently interested in getting more non perimeter, non shooting fouls, but that's just based on not assuming more physicality as you get closer to the rim. Looking at Go for On Ball Steals and Blocking foul sliders particularly.

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[devroyce]

Quote: Originally Posted by duce

Are alot of the reach-in fouls occurring on the perimeter, in the paint, in switches? For the user team, is it occurring more by the USER or the CPU teammates? I'm currently interested in getting more non perimeter, non shooting fouls, but that's just based on not assuming more physicality as you get closer to the rim. Looking at Go for On Ball Steals and Blocking foul sliders particularly. Sent from my PH-1 using Operation Sports mobile app

Busy right now, but when I get back to my stat sheet I will detail the where the fouls are occurring as I have it jotted down on paper.

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[devroyce]

Quote: Originally Posted by duce

Are alot of the reach-in fouls occurring on the perimeter, in the paint, in switches? For the user team, is it occurring more by the USER or the CPU teammates? I'm currently interested in getting more non perimeter, non shooting fouls, but that's just based on not assuming more physicality as you get closer to the rim. Looking at Go for On Ball Steals and Blocking foul sliders particularly. Sent from my PH-1 using Operation Sports mobile app

The first game was the only game I was able to jot down more details...been really pressed for time...but while I got a chance...

I did not make a separation in regards to midrange and perimeter and should have, but I separated by non-shooting fouls outside of the paint. Next time I will include midrange vs perimeter.

1st game BOS @ HOU Details:

My A.I. teammates:
4 Inside shooting fouls
1 Outside shooting foul
1 reaching foul

User:
1 Inside shooting foul
1 Outside shooting foul
1 Reaching foul in the paint
4 Reaching fouls outside the paint

Cpu:
18 Inside shooting fouls
1 Outside shooting foul
2 blocking fouls outside the paint
4 reaching fouls outside the paint

Again, next time I will distinguish between midrange, perimeter, half court, full court...but I can assure you that even in the 2nd game (Cavs vs Ind) with cpu 19 to 25 fouls I definitely saw many variations of non shooting foula whether crossing half court, midrange, near/at perimeter, in the paint.



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[duce]

Quote: Originally Posted by devroyce

The first game was the only game I was able to jot down more details...been really pressed for time...but while I got a chance... I did not make a separation in regards to midrange and perimeter and should have, but I separated by non-shooting fouls outside of the paint. Next time I will include midrange vs perimeter. 1st game BOS @ HOU Details: My A.I. teammates: 4 Inside shooting fouls 1 Outside shooting foul 1 reaching foul User: 1 Inside shooting foul 1 Outside shooting foul 1 Reaching foul in the paint 4 Reaching fouls outside the paint Cpu: 18 Inside shooting fouls 1 Outside shooting foul 2 blocking fouls outside the paint 4 reaching fouls outside the paint Again, next time I will distinguish between midrange, perimeter, half court, full court...but I can assure you that even in the 2nd game (Cavs vs Ind) with cpu 19 to 25 fouls I definitely saw many variations of non shooting foula whether crossing half court, midrange, near/at perimeter, in the paint. Sent from my Z812 using Operation Sports mobile app

Thanks. I agree with the focus of what you're doing. I don't think it's impossible to get the right averages in this game. Hope to see your edits and are you running with a specific set of foul sliders?

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[devroyce]

Quote: Originally Posted by duce

Thanks. I agree with the focus of what you're doing. I don't think it's impossible to get the right averages in this game. Hope to see your edits and are you running with a specific set of foul sliders? Sent from my PH-1 using Operation Sports mobile app

Currently it looks this:

Fouls
Over The Back Foul: 61
Charging Foul: 100
Blocking Foul: 100
Reaching Foul: 100
Shooting Foul: 100
Loose Ball Foul: 45

But thats not all that I have done...so much more involved...that I can write a book explaining why and how...

Anyway,

You and Eccentricmeat have done such a magnificent job with sliders and gameplay this year and I would not try to reinvent the wheel lol! I just want fouls to be average amount as I believe you guys fixed everything else. Fouls are most ignored to me. Especially non shooting types. It is very difficult to complete this task as it can destroy gameplay...trying to be careful.

[duce]

Quote: Originally Posted by devroyce

Currently it looks this: Fouls Over The Back Foul: 61 Charging Foul: 100 Blocking Foul: 100 Reaching Foul: 100 Shooting Foul: 100 Loose Ball Foul: 45 But thats not all that I have done...so much more involved...that I can write a book explaining why and how... Anyway, You and Eccentricmeat have done such a magnificent job with sliders and gameplay this year and I would not try to reinvent the wheel lol! I just want fouls to be average amount as I believe you guys fixed everything else. Fouls are most ignored to me. Especially non shooting types. It is very difficult to complete this task as it can destroy gameplay...trying to be careful.

Word. I'm still kind of confused about how Charging works.

Im guessing each slider corresponds to how frequently the foul is called AGAINST that side. Are you operating under the same thought?

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[devroyce]

Quote: Originally Posted by duce

Word. I'm still kind of confused about how Charging works. Im guessing each slider corresponds to how frequently the foul is called AGAINST that side. Are you operating under the same thought? Sent from my PH-1 using Operation Sports mobile app

Yes it does play a huge part...also depending how your sliders are set up...other slider categories have a huge effect on what values you need to have for fouls. I wish I can explain more. Some slider sets may need foul sliders to be set lower. There's no one way for this and thats what many 2k players here on this forum fail to realize...just know that it may effect your gameplay in a different way than another's set. There's many ways to get more fouls but some ways yield worse gameplay results than others. My attempt now is not to destroy gameplay while doing so. Its tough. I had a set where User Blocking fouls had to be set at 69 while Cpu Charging was at 100 in order to see a balance of both at one point. But that particular slider set compromised a lot on the gameplay set...(fouls were not the biggest factor in causing this however). Yes I agree.

Roster edits can be a huge difference as well...so are slider steals success, steals attributes, cpu lateral quickness vs user, hands attributes (bigger component than most think), hustle, on ball defense, def consistency, etc.

"Certain combos work together like gold." If one slider is off then a certain foul "won't" happen at all and that can be a problem most times because it might lead to too many steals ornother issues etc. It All depends. Also, Cpu has to be aggressive...ag-gres-sive lol. If they are too scripted and lack aggression, then that will keep fouls falling short for the User. In other words, "Cpu has to give the User reason to foul." Otherwise, the User or User A.I. won't foul at all. Thats where Cpu hustle, yes hustle being high and of course tendencies comes into play.

Huge issue... If a user plays a style of only Icon passing deep outside of the perimeter every possession of the game, of course there will be less steals and most importantly less fouls committed by cpu. I've seen so so many videos people have shown me whom play this style. It lacks aggression but I can understand them trying to protect the ball and playing with care. However, you won't see many fouls on a normal basis. Thats by user choice.

*Ball Handling
*Ball Security
Hustle (Cpu is higher than user)
Hands (higher than 59)
*Steal Success
*Steals
On Ball Defense

...all have a big effect on non-shooting fouls. especially the four areas that are starred *. They work hand in hand. User ballhandling has to be completely opposite of cpu's ballhandling. Ball security works the same way. in other words, if the user ballhandling is 60, cpu ball security has to be the same. But User ball security has to be in the single digits as well as cpu ball handling. Its a game of opposites. In order to allow for more reaching and blocking fouls. This is the part where someone may say devroyce you are crazy but it works. And yes cpu will still be able crossover. Thats where other slider edits come in. Most dont realize that hands attribute also allows stiff arming and better ballhandling to offset it.

[devroyce]

Quote: Originally Posted by devroyce

Yes it does play a huge part...also depending how your sliders are set up...other slider categories have a huge effect on what values you need to have for fouls. I wish I can explain more. Some slider sets may need foul sliders to be set lower. There's no one way for this and thats what many 2k players here on this forum fail to realize...just know that it may effect your gameplay in a different way than another's set. There's many ways to get more fouls but some ways yield worse gameplay results than others. My attempt now is not to destroy gameplay while doing so. Its tough. I had a set where User Blocking fouls had to be set at 69 while Cpu Charging was at 100 in order to see a balance of both at one point. But that particular slider set compromised a lot on the gameplay set...(fouls were not the biggest factor in causing this however). Yes I agree. Roster edits can be a huge difference as well...so are slider steals success, steals attributes, cpu lateral quickness vs user, hands attributes (bigger component than most think), hustle, on ball defense, def consistency, etc. "Certain combos work together like gold." If one slider is off then a certain foul "won't" happen at all and that can be a problem most times because it might lead to too many steals ornother issues etc. It All depends. Also, Cpu has to be aggressive...ag-gres-sive lol. If they are too scripted and lack aggression, then that will keep fouls falling short for the User. In other words, "Cpu has to give the User reason to foul." Otherwise, the User or User A.I. won't foul at all. Thats where Cpu hustle, yes hustle being high and of course tendencies into play comes in. Huge issue... If a user plays a style of only Icon passing deep outside of the perimeter every possession of the game, of course there will be less steals and most importantly less fouls committed by cpu. I've seen so so many videos people have shown me whom play this style. It lacks aggression but I can understand them trying to protect the ball and playing with care. However, you won't see many fouls on a normal basis. Thats by user choice. *Ball Handling *Ball Security Hustle (Cpu is higher than user) Hands (higher than 59) *Steal Success *Steals On Ball Defense ...all have a big effect on non-shooting fouls. especially the four areas that are starred *. They work hand in hand. User ballhandling has to be completely opposite of cpu's ballhandling. Ball security works the same way. in other words, if the user ballhandling is 60, cpu ball security has to be the same. But User ball security has to be in the single digits as well as cpu ball handling. Its a game of opposites. In order to allow for more reaching and blocking fouls. This is the part where someone may say devroyce you are crazy but it works. And yes cpu will still be able crossover. Thats where other slider edits come in. Most dont realize that hands attribute also allows stiff arming and better ballhandling to offset it.

I am going to experiment something using your slider set also. Because since your set is solid I am really curious and will inform you when I am done testing. Therefore, I will be bouncing around my own edited set and yours, checking to see if what I am seeing is really consistent and is a keeper because my goal is not to change what i see as great gameplay.