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NBA 2K23 Roster Update - 3.23.23 - 9th Ratings Update

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Old 03-28-2023, 04:02 PM   #17
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Re: NBA 2K23 Roster Update - 3.23.23 - 9th Ratings Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIRJ23
Gimme a break. Anyone who watched the game saw LeBron completely shift the fluid chemistry the team developed without him and especially non coincidentally contributed to them playing the worst defense we’ve probably seen from the team since the trade deadline.
LeBron, from his seat on the bench, affected chemistry? They lost the minutes he didn't play.

Quote:
Plus/minus is hardly a barometer for how 2K rates its players. Bron had a -117 plus/minus in the 2022 season and he had a 96 OVR. Comical.
Correct. But it is a barometer for the nonsense you're talking about regarding a specific game.

The Lakers don't have another true Center so when AD went to the bench the Bulls feasted.
Wenyen Gabriel was -19 in 9 minutes. Andre Drummond was +20.
That ain't got nothin to do w/ LeBron or chemistry.

Quote:
Confirmation bias is you reaming the 2K team for “ratings ineptitude” yet defending the most glaring example of said ineptitude or backdoor biases, because it’s LeBron.
I have regularly pointed out (long before you ever showed up) that only half of the attributes get adjusted LEAGUE-WIDE. My criticism (towards 2K, or NBA players, or OS forum posters) is constructive and fair, because I'm able to separate my fandom (personal feelings) from the equation.

You simply can't get LeBron's name out of your mouth. The center of your universe. The sky could be blue and it'd be his fault. Your emotions cloud your judgement and you say some really stupid things as a result. Such as...

Quote:
Not only is his 3 points rating not reflecting his seasonal performance
LeBron James (73 3PT)
100-327 FG (30.6%)
6.8 FGA36
65% Assisted

Jarred Vanderbilt (72 3PT)
23-79 FG (29.1%)
1.6 FGA36
100% Assisted

Draymond Green (76 3PT)
38-122 (31.1%)
2.1 FGA36
100% Assisted

You're finally right - but not in the way that you thought. Whoops.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find a way to spin this into 2K being biased towards LeBron.
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Last edited by Real2KInsider; 03-28-2023 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 03-29-2023, 04:12 AM   #18
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Re: NBA 2K23 Roster Update - 3.23.23 - 9th Ratings Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real2KInsider
LeBron, from his seat on the bench, affected chemistry? They lost the minutes he didn't play.



Correct. But it is a barometer for the nonsense you're talking about regarding a specific game.

The Lakers don't have another true Center so when AD went to the bench the Bulls feasted.
Wenyen Gabriel was -19 in 9 minutes. Andre Drummond was +20.
That ain't got nothin to do w/ LeBron or chemistry.



I have regularly pointed out (long before you ever showed up) that only half of the attributes get adjusted LEAGUE-WIDE. My criticism (towards 2K, or NBA players, or OS forum posters) is constructive and fair, because I'm able to separate my fandom (personal feelings) from the equation.

You simply can't get LeBron's name out of your mouth. The center of your universe. The sky could be blue and it'd be his fault. Your emotions cloud your judgement and you say some really stupid things as a result. Such as...



LeBron James (73 3PT)
100-327 FG (30.6%)
6.8 FGA36
65% Assisted

Jarred Vanderbilt (72 3PT)
23-79 FG (29.1%)
1.6 FGA36
100% Assisted

Draymond Green (76 3PT)
38-122 (31.1%)
2.1 FGA36
100% Assisted

You're finally right - but not in the way that you thought. Whoops.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find a way to spin this into 2K being biased towards LeBron.
Of course you’re not separating your fandom from the equation. You refuse to admit the most glaring issue with 2K’s ratings.. being Lebron’s 97, or more specifically, his comical defensive badges and ratings for the level of defensive play he’s showcased.

Cool, they have similar three point ratings. Now show their shooting badges which affect 3 point success far more.

He played 30 minutes. That’s the majority of the game. Do you understand how chemistry works? I’m not even saying it’s “his fault.” Look at how the team played without him, everybody involved, energy on the defensive end, multiple players scoring 20+. His shadow looms so large, both technically and mentally, that the team becomes reliant on him too much. And he’s not good enough anymore to carry a team that’s reliant on him as the dominating force. Especially defensively where his leadership becomes a lack thereof with minimal effort, taking plays off, etc.

If LeBron settles in as a role player and vastly declines usage%, becoming more of a role player (paint force offensively, rebounds, occasional plays out of the post) letting others bring the ball up court and become primary ball handlers/playmakers, letting AD lead the team in shot attempts, I think the lakers can be a force. But if the offense still revolves around him, which then forces the players to mentally submit to him as they do toward leaders, therefore subjecting themselves to take cues on the defensive end, they’re not going anywhere.

Plus/minus for one game is irrelevant when looking at the big picture. Now I’m supposed to believe he “needs to be on court” based on that data when the team went on their best run and played their best ball in 2 years without him? C’mon lol.
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Old 03-29-2023, 11:06 AM   #19
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Re: NBA 2K23 Roster Update - 3.23.23 - 9th Ratings Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIRJ23
Of course you’re not separating your fandom from the equation. You refuse to admit the most glaring issue with 2K’s ratings.. being Lebron’s 97, or more specifically, his comical defensive badges and ratings for the level of defensive play he’s showcased.
LeBron's Defensive Badges (11)
HOF: Chase Down Artist
GOLD: N/A
SILVER: Interceptor, Pogo Stick
BRONZE: Ankle Braces, Brick Wall, Challenger, Clamps, Glove, Menace, Off-Ball Pest, Post Lockdown

BRONZE badges for one of the all-time greats (who remains an average to slightly above average defensive player when healthy), is what you're trying to hang your hat on. Lol.

Meanwhile, you would have been silent as a mouse when Kobe and MJ were taking plays off in their mid-late 30s (including when Kobe was being named to All-Defensive teams over far more deserving players).

Quote:
Cool, they have similar three point ratings. Now show their shooting badges
Whoops! Is that you, moving the goal post?????? The poor narcissist can't admit when he's wrong, and expects anyone should take him seriously.

Quote:
Now show their shooting badges which affect 3 point success far more.
LeBron's Shooting Badges (11)
GOLD: Clutch Shooter, Comeback Kid, Space Creator
SILVER: Volume Shooter
BRONZE: Agent 3, Amped, Catch & Shoot, Green Machine, Guard Up, Limitless Range

Again, BRONZE badges. LOL. Which I would think are well deserved for a player who is creating 1/3rd of his threes off the dribble, and 90% of his Mid-Rangers.

Quote:
He played 30 minutes. That’s the majority of the game. Do you understand how chemistry works?
Ah yeah, I'm sure the Lakers would won the game if Troy Brown played 40 minutes. Do you understand how talent works?

Quote:
I’m not even saying it’s “his fault.”
Do you understand how words work?

Quote:
Plus/minus for one game is irrelevant when looking at the big picture.
But you WEREN'T looking at the big picture. You were discussing that game. Again, let's look at that definition of...

Quote:
Confirmation Bias
"The tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories."
You attempted to pigeon-hole a game into your "big picture" with shall we say, suspect supporting evidence.
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Old 03-29-2023, 11:48 AM   #20
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Re: NBA 2K23 Roster Update - 3.23.23 - 9th Ratings Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real2KInsider
LeBron's Defensive Badges (11)
HOF: Chase Down Artist
GOLD: N/A
SILVER: Interceptor, Pogo Stick
BRONZE: Ankle Braces, Brick Wall, Challenger, Clamps, Glove, Menace, Off-Ball Pest, Post Lockdown

BRONZE badges for one of the all-time greats (who remains an average to slightly above average defensive player when healthy), is what you're trying to hang your hat on. Lol.



Whoops! Is that you, moving the goal post?????? The poor narcissist can't admit when he's wrong, and expects anyone should take him seriously.



LeBron's Shooting Badges(11)
GOLD: Clutch Shooter, Comeback Kid, Space Creator
SILVER: Volume Shooter
BRONZE: Agent 3, Amped, Catch & Shoot, Green Machine, Guard Up, Limitless Range

Again, BRONZE badges. LOL. Which I would think are well deserved for a player who is creating 1/3rd of his threes off the dribble, and 90% of his Mid-Rangers.




Ah yeah, I'm sure the Lakers would won the game if Troy Brown played 40 minutes. Do you understand how talent works?



Do you understand how words work?



If LeBron settles in as a role player and vastly declines usage%, becoming more of a role player (paint force offensively, rebounds, occasional plays out of the post) letting others bring the ball up court and become primary ball handlers/playmakers, letting AD lead the team in shot attempts, I think the lakers can be a force. But if the offense still revolves around him, which then forces the players to mentally submit to him as they do toward leaders, therefore subjecting themselves to take cues on the defensive end, they’re not going anywhere.



But you WEREN'T looking at the big picture. You were discussing that game. Again, let's look at that definition of...



You attempted to pigeon-hole a game into your "big picture" with shall we say, suspect supporting evidence.
GOLD clutch shooter? Lebron’s had historically bad clutch shooting performances in the last two years. In fact I don’t think he’s made ONE true clutch shot (waning seconds of a game) despite high attempts. I’m not talking about “within the last few minutes,” I’m talking game winner or right near it. He’s missed a historic amount in the last two years and has a percentage of 0% despite a large quantity sample size. He’s had some layups within the last minute but as far as hitting a game winner/clincher or go ahead, gold badge isn’t even close to accurate. The opposite would be.

Even if he was an average defender when healthy, that doesn’t deserve near the amount of badges he has. Look at how 2K rates other average defenders in the modern nba, pretty poorly which is for good reason. But LJ is still hanging onto legacy badges.
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Old 03-29-2023, 12:31 PM   #21
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Re: NBA 2K23 Roster Update - 3.23.23 - 9th Ratings Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIRJ23
GOLD clutch shooter?
Sorry, which part of "Clutch Shooter" is affecting his 3pt success? I could have sworn you were talking about 3PT rating!

Quote:
But LJ is still hanging onto legacy badges.
Clutch Shooter is LITERALLY a "Legacy" badge. It's given out largely based on Playoff Performance.

Quote:
Lebron’s had historically bad clutch shooting performances in the last two years. In fact I don’t think he’s made ONE true clutch shot (waning seconds of a game) despite high attempts. I’m not talking about “within the last few minutes,” I’m talking game winner or right near it. He’s missed a historic amount in the last two years and has a percentage of 0% despite a large quantity sample size.
Oh boy, how exciting, more hyperbolic statements we're supposed to take as fact, with no supporting evidence.

How about you give us some hard data for a change, rather than "In fact, I don't think". Should be easy given his "historic, high attempts".

(Not that the Clutch Shooter is restricted to game winners. Just more goal post moving.)

But while we're here!

https://www.basketball-reference.com...r-beaters.html

There have been a grand total of 16 buzzer beaters in the NBA in 2023.
There were a grand total of 14 in 2022.
You're mad that LeBron doesn't have one of them.

Michael Jordan, arguably the clutchest player in NBA history, hit 9 buzzer beaters in his career, the most in NBA history.
LeBron James (one of the historically least clutch players!) ranks 4th with 7 buzzer beaters all-time (8: Kobe, Joe Johnson; Also 7: Paul Pierce).
Five of those were Playoff games, where he is 1st All-Time (Jordan: 2nd All-Time w/ 3).

Again, we're expected to believe you wouldn't have cried murder if Jordan had his clutch badge revoked during his Wizards years.

Quote:
Even if he was an average defender when healthy, that doesn’t deserve near the amount of badges he has. Look at how 2K rates other average defenders in the modern nba, pretty poorly which is for good reason. But LJ is still hanging onto legacy badges.
Let's not pretend you are equipped to discuss LeBron's defense relative to an average defender. You aren't capable of even quantifying who an average defender even is.
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Last edited by Real2KInsider; 03-29-2023 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 03-29-2023, 11:02 PM   #22
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Re: NBA 2K23 Roster Update - 3.23.23 - 9th Ratings Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real2KInsider
Sorry, which part of "Clutch Shooter" is affecting his 3pt success? I could have sworn you were talking about 3PT rating!



Clutch Shooter is LITERALLY a "Legacy" badge. It's given out largely based on Playoff Performance.



Oh boy, how exciting, more hyperbolic statements we're supposed to take as fact, with no supporting evidence.

How about you give us some hard data for a change, rather than "In fact, I don't think". Should be easy given his "historic, high attempts".

(Not that the Clutch Shooter is restricted to game winners. Just more goal post moving.)

But while we're here!

https://www.basketball-reference.com...r-beaters.html

There have been a grand total of 16 buzzer beaters in the NBA in 2023.
There were a grand total of 14 in 2022.
You're mad that LeBron doesn't have one of them.

Michael Jordan, arguably the clutchest player in NBA history, hit 9 buzzer beaters in his career, the most in NBA history.
LeBron James (one of the historically least clutch players!) ranks 4th with 7 buzzer beaters all-time (8: Kobe, Joe Johnson; Also 7: Paul Pierce).
Five of those were Playoff games, where he is 1st All-Time (Jordan: 2nd All-Time w/ 3).

Again, we're expected to believe you wouldn't have cried murder if Jordan had his clutch badge revoked during his Wizards years.



Let's not pretend you are equipped to discuss LeBron's defense relative to an average defender. You aren't capable of even quantifying who an average defender even is.
Welllll, clutch shooter is not supposed to be a legacy badge. And I’m not just talking “buzzer beaters,” I’m talking waning seconds of a game, go ahead shot, etc. His current performance isn’t near gold standard or any standard really. I have a compilation video of all the clutch shots he’s missed in the past seasons and it’s a LOT.

I wouldn’t expect wizards MJ to have gold clutch shooter badge either most likely. But I don’t remember what waning seconds shots he took back then.

As for defense, would anyone in their right mind say he’s a better defender than Luka currently? Luka is widely criticized for his defense, rightfully so, yet Luka has a better defensive rating, averages more steals (1.4 vs 0.9) and the same blocks at 0.5. Which means LBJ has 13 defensive badges with a 113.1 defensive rating and not even averaging 1 full steal or block per game.
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Old 03-30-2023, 05:01 AM   #23
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Re: NBA 2K23 Roster Update - 3.23.23 - 9th Ratings Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIRJ23
Welllll, clutch shooter is not supposed to be a legacy badge.
"Clutch" isn't something thats consistent from year to year. Small samples, high variance. It's one of the few badges that needs to be treated as a legacy badge.

Quote:
And I’m not just talking “buzzer beaters,” I’m talking waning seconds of a game, go ahead shot, etc.
K well Clutch functionally accounts for a lot more that that, and LeBron is far from "historically bad" this season, he's shooting 44% in "clutch time" this season.

Quote:
As for defense, would anyone in their right mind say he’s a better defender than Luka currently? Luka is widely criticized for his defense, rightfully so, yet Luka has a better defensive rating, averages more steals (1.4 vs 0.9) and the same blocks at 0.5. Which means LBJ has 13 defensive badges with a 113.1 defensive rating and not even averaging 1 full steal or block per game.
The Lakers are 12th defensively and the Mavs are 22nd. Defensive Rating isn't a measure of individual defense or impact, its simply counting rebounds / steals / blocks. Much like we wouldn't use Offensive Rating to say Kyle Korver and Tyson Chandler are a better offensive players than Kobe Bryant.

Moreover, a 113 Defensive Rating is actually POSITIVE when the leaguewide Offensive Rating is 114.8.
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Old 03-30-2023, 05:37 PM   #24
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Re: NBA 2K23 Roster Update - 3.23.23 - 9th Ratings Update

I really wish they'd take the time to properly do player finishing tendencies. I don't want to watch Jokic backing people down in the post and then power dunking, or SGA constantly tomahawking. It's not how they play.
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