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Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

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Old 09-27-2023, 11:26 PM   #57
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Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

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Originally Posted by sirdez
I think the other thing that separates Steph from the likes of Ray and Reggie off ball is you legitimately have to guard him to 35 feet. So he can run well outside the arc and you just have to follow him.
lol nah if Steph wants a diet of 35 footers most teams would concede that. I don't see GSW setting to many offball screens for Steph at 35 feet
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Old 09-28-2023, 12:07 AM   #58
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Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

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Originally Posted by jd@os
Harper can guard Steph--a tougher assignment. Pippen can guard KD a while--a tougher assignment.
My point was that Jordan wasn't the impact defensive player in his 30s that some make him out to be. He was 8 years removed from his DPOY season. He wasn't Gary Payton or Ron Artest. He was a high-IQ player with great help instincts, and there were no guards who had the size/strength/skill to make it worth posting him up. Certainly a top defensive player in the league. But he wasn't a lockdown guy in this phase of his career. Nobody would say Jrue Holiday would put Klay Thompson in the "torture chamber". I just found that word usage funny.

Writing this out - Harper can guard Steph. Pippen can guard KD. Jordan on Klay. The Bulls never faced three HOF perimeter players. That in itself would stretch them out more than they ever were. Klay isn't Jeff Hornacek. He's not Dan Majerle, or Detlef Schrempf, or Hersey Hawkins, or Mookie Blaylock, whoever the 3rd best guy on some of these teams were. He's a Ray/Reggie tier All-Time shooter.

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Again man--just a fun debate. Funny how this is the post that got quoted but not the one where I said the Warriors could win. And check your pm's by the way if you haven't--you got something wrong in your Lebron rating post that I corrected days ago to look out for you.
Not sure why you're getting defensive when we're just having fun.
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Old 09-28-2023, 04:09 AM   #59
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Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdez
I think the other thing that separates Steph from the likes of Ray and Reggie off ball is you legitimately have to guard him to 35 feet. So he can run well outside the arc and you just have to follow him.
What’s Steph’s % at 35+ feet? I’d be surprised if it was even 30%. No intelligent coach would tell their team to guard Steph tightly at 35 feet unless maybe the game was on the line. Otherwise you probably want to give him that shot as it’s better than risking him getting open for a closer 3.

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Originally Posted by Real2KInsider
My point was that Jordan wasn't the impact defensive player in his 30s that some make him out to be. He was 8 years removed from his DPOY season. He wasn't Gary Payton or Ron Artest. He was a high-IQ player with great help instincts, and there were no guards who had the size/strength/skill to make it worth posting him up. Certainly a top defensive player in the league. But he wasn't a lockdown guy in this phase of his career. Nobody would say Jrue Holiday would put Klay Thompson in the "torture chamber". I just found that word usage funny.

Writing this out - Harper can guard Steph. Pippen can guard KD. Jordan on Klay. The Bulls never faced three HOF perimeter players. That in itself would stretch them out more than they ever were. Klay isn't Jeff Hornacek. He's not Dan Majerle, or Detlef Schrempf, or Hersey Hawkins, or Mookie Blaylock, whoever the 3rd best guy on some of these teams were. He's a Ray/Reggie tier All-Time shooter.



Not sure why you're getting defensive when we're just having fun.
Klay also never played against pre-04 rules. Who knows who he’d be in that era. Klay enjoys an era with spacing and rules designed to allow guys like Klay to exist and thrive. Klay ain’t shooting 41% career 3 pointers in an era where multiple rules didn’t exist to disallow proper closing out space.

As for this “third best player” ratio, using your own logic, Draymond “triple single” friggin Green was the third best player on the 73 win 2016 warriors. I can name a plethora of teams MJ faced with a third best player superior to Draymond. I’d put 98 Chris Mullin as the third best player on the Pacers ahead of Dray. 98 Mullin was a 94% FT shooter and 44% 3 shooter. And at 55 years old he beat prime KD in a game of HORSE. The same guys who try to over hype Dray now try to downplay superior role players MJ faced.

It’s not always about who the best players are down a row. It’s about how well a team works together to utilize their tools.

Klay isn’t even a top 75 player. And when he gets flustered he’s notorious to start chucking up bad shots. He never faced a defender like MJ to frazzle him. This isn’t James harden or kyrie or Jr trying to chase him down.

Go watch game 4 of the 96 playoffs vs Orlando and tell me 96 Jordan isn’t a lock down defender. What he was doing at half court to Penny makes Jrue Holiday look like James Harden on defense.

The 17 warriors would UNDOUBTEDLY be the best perimeter force to face the Bulls. But they’d also be the weakest interior force to face the Bulls. So the Bulls wouldn’t have to worry about a team exploiting their one weakness: No dominent big men. And they have the best tools possible to handle the perimeter.
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Old 09-28-2023, 05:15 AM   #60
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Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real2KInsider
My point was that Jordan wasn't the impact defensive player in his 30s that some make him out to be. He was 8 years removed from his DPOY season. He wasn't Gary Payton or Ron Artest. He was a high-IQ player with great help instincts, and there were no guards who had the size/strength/skill to make it worth posting him up. Certainly a top defensive player in the league. But he wasn't a lockdown guy in this phase of his career. Nobody would say Jrue Holiday would put Klay Thompson in the "torture chamber". I just found that word usage funny.

Writing this out - Harper can guard Steph. Pippen can guard KD. Jordan on Klay. The Bulls never faced three HOF perimeter players. That in itself would stretch them out more than they ever were. Klay isn't Jeff Hornacek. He's not Dan Majerle, or Detlef Schrempf, or Hersey Hawkins, or Mookie Blaylock, whoever the 3rd best guy on some of these teams were. He's a Ray/Reggie tier All-Time shooter.



Not sure why you're getting defensive when we're just having fun.
But I was the one who said we were having a fun debate. I'm glad you found the "torture chamber" word usage funny because it was supposed to be funny. Again, I certainly don't mean Jordan is literally going to put Klay Thompson in a medieval torture device. I find it funny that, again, you're not addressing the post where I said the Warriors could win. And nowhere in my post was I getting defensive. Absolutely nowhere. That's more of a stretch than the Warriors having 3 perimeter players.

It is okay if someone has a different opinion than you. I'm not the only one, but my posts are the ones being quoted....but not the one where I said the Warriors could win.
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Old 09-28-2023, 06:44 AM   #61
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Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

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Originally Posted by ggsimmonds
lol nah if Steph wants a diet of 35 footers most teams would concede that. I don't see GSW setting to many offball screens for Steph at 35 feet
No of course not, but you still have to be aware of his threat out that far.
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Old 09-28-2023, 06:58 AM   #62
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Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

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Originally Posted by AIRJ23
What’s Steph’s % at 35+ feet? I’d be surprised if it was even 30%. No intelligent coach would tell their team to guard Steph tightly at 35 feet unless maybe the game was on the line. Otherwise you probably want to give him that shot as it’s better than risking him getting open for a closer 3.



Klay also never played against pre-04 rules. Who knows who he’d be in that era. Klay enjoys an era with spacing and rules designed to allow guys like Klay to exist and thrive. Klay ain’t shooting 41% career 3 pointers in an era where multiple rules didn’t exist to disallow proper closing out space.

As for this “third best player” ratio, using your own logic, Draymond “triple single” friggin Green was the third best player on the 73 win 2016 warriors. I can name a plethora of teams MJ faced with a third best player superior to Draymond. I’d put 98 Chris Mullin as the third best player on the Pacers ahead of Dray. 98 Mullin was a 94% FT shooter and 44% 3 shooter. And at 55 years old he beat prime KD in a game of HORSE. The same guys who try to over hype Dray now try to downplay superior role players MJ faced.

It’s not always about who the best players are down a row. It’s about how well a team works together to utilize their tools.

Klay isn’t even a top 75 player. And when he gets flustered he’s notorious to start chucking up bad shots. He never faced a defender like MJ to frazzle him. This isn’t James harden or kyrie or Jr trying to chase him down.

Go watch game 4 of the 96 playoffs vs Orlando and tell me 96 Jordan isn’t a lock down defender. What he was doing at half court to Penny makes Jrue Holiday look like James Harden on defense.

The 17 warriors would UNDOUBTEDLY be the best perimeter force to face the Bulls. But they’d also be the weakest interior force to face the Bulls. So the Bulls wouldn’t have to worry about a team exploiting their one weakness: No dominent big men. And they have the best tools possible to handle the perimeter.
CORRECTION:

Mullin actually may be the fourth best player on those 98 Pacers. Which means I’d put their fourth best player ahead of the 2016 Warriors third best player.

And if we want to talk about “name a team Jordan faced with a #3 like Klay.”

That argument goes both ways.

Name one team the warriors or LeBron for that matter SWEPT with a duo near the caliber as Shaq and Penny. Not to mention how deep the help on those Magic were (Nick Anderson a borderline star himself, D Scott the best 3 shooter that year, Horace albeit injured for most the series).

Ya’ll and I DAMN WELL KNOW neither the warriors or any LeBron team are SWEEPING Shaq and Penny with a host of shooters around them. Not a chance. Especially if the rockets took them to 7.

Last edited by AIRJ23; 09-28-2023 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 09-28-2023, 07:27 AM   #63
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Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

Man you're getting weirdly worked up about a hypothetical match-up.
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Old 09-28-2023, 07:40 AM   #64
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Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

AIRJ23's just having fun like we're all supposed to be doing. It's just that he (unexpectedly) counters stats with more stats which, and let's be honest, throws some people off.
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