Every basket is a swish now

[blashinsky]

Seems like every shoot is nothing but net, if it touches the rim it's a miss.

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[Junior Moe]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

I just really noticed this in 2K24. I have been playing a lot of College Hoops 2K7 recently. I started up a new legacy and am just playing through on default. I noticed that usually, if the ball hits the rim it bounces around and usually misses. If its a make it swishes. I am back on College Hoops 2K8 now and it is insane how many ways the ball can bounce around and still go in. CH2K8 ball/rim physics are so damn organic; it makes rebounding a challenge and rewarding. Back to 2K24, I'm guessing it has a lot to do with the under the hood make/miss shooting with greens. I play with real player shooting but I know its all the same system.

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[cch99]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

Yeah the hoop and rim interaction is not totally physics based for sure. You almost never see the ball bounce around the rim and drop and when you do it looks like an animation that you see repeatedly. it's not a natural bounce. Or when the ball gets on the back of the rim and unnaturally rolls off.

This whole greens win thing seems to have forced them to adjust basket physics. I'd love to see a true 100% physics interaction with the rim where you saw a larger variety of bounces (shooters touch anyone) and you don't know if the shot is going to drop.

I think the other thing is that the shooting system also makes it so basically 1/2 court or long buzzer beaters don't seem to go in. I haven't seen a 1/2 court or 3/4 court shot go in for years. Just by random luck the 3/4 court should drop now and again even if just 1 or 2 times a season and the ones at 1/2 court or just over should go in more frequently. As is I haven't seen one in a long time.

I read in another post about someone playing saying that guys are shooting 70+ as a team from three in their online league. All because of the stupid perfects always go in. It's either deal with the crap or don't play anymore.

Which was the last 2k to not have perfects ? Was it 2k16 ? Where you had a better chance but you could still miss wide open perfect shots, kind of like real basketball.

I like Czar and have appreciated his interaction even before he was with 2k but his don't play video games, play basketball saying becomes less true every year.

[z.arthur23]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

Yeah the hoop and rim interaction is not totally physics based for sure. You almost never see the ball bounce around the rim and drop and when you do it looks like an animation that you see repeatedly. it's not a natural bounce. Or when the ball gets on the back of the rim and unnaturally rolls off.

This whole greens win thing seems to have forced them to adjust basket physics. I'd love to see a true 100% physics interaction with the rim where you saw a larger variety of bounces (shooters touch anyone) and you don't know if the shot is going to drop.

I think the other thing is that the shooting system also makes it so basically 1/2 court or long buzzer beaters don't seem to go in. I haven't seen a 1/2 court or 3/4 court shot go in for years. Just by random luck the 3/4 court should drop now and again even if just 1 or 2 times a season and the ones at 1/2 court or just over should go in more frequently. As is I haven't seen one in a long time.

I read in another post about someone playing saying that guys are shooting 70+ as a team from three in their online league. All because of the stupid perfects always go in. It's either deal with the crap or don't play anymore.

Which was the last 2k to not have perfects ? Was it 2k16 ? Where you had a better chance but you could still miss wide open perfect shots, kind of like real basketball.

I like Czar and have appreciated his interaction even before he was with 2k but his don't play video games, play basketball saying becomes less true every year.

I've been playing a lot of 2k24 lately and this entire issue of no rim physics has been a glaring problem for me.

I think it's as simple as the release window dictating what you need in a good shot (release, rotation, arc, etc.). Once the ball has left the player's hands, it's all physics based from there. Long ball off the middle of the rim could come off hard for a long rebound, or maybe it'll bounce vertically then off another part of the rim.

In my opinion, every sports game needs to have physics based reactions that add infinite replayability to the sport. Tackling in football games should be 100% physics based, and that's a train I've been on for a long time, but when it comes to basketball, a 100% physics based basketball shooting system would add a suspense to every single shot, regardless of how open or defended the shot is.

In its current form, the second the ball hits the rim, the suspense is over. And in a game based around whether the ball goes in or not, eliminating such a huge area of suspense is an absolute shame. Especially because we have the hardware to both make physics based shooting a reality but for it also to be executed at a high level.

[cch99]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

In its current form, the second the ball hits the rim, the suspense is over. And in a game based around whether the ball goes in or not, eliminating such a huge area of suspense is an absolute shame. Especially because we have the hardware to both make physics based shooting a reality but for it also to be executed at a high level.

This part right here. When I play actual basketball and I take a shot sometimes everything feels perfect and I still miss. Or I'll throw up a prayer and I'll get a roll that I'll laugh at because that shot had no real reason to go in. This is not something that happens in 2k. It definitely takes some of the fun out the game knowing that certain shots you know will never go in, even on real fg% there are certain times you know it's not going in. Shots thrown up as the shot clock expires and you put up a fade to get it over the hand of the defender who is smothering you. That shot will never go in in 2k.

At the end of the day we really have to just remind ourselves it's a video game and not a basketball simulator and in video games most people want outcomes that they know with certainty can be repeated every time, the same way. I mean I've seen teams in real life throw up a prayer and win a game on a shot that realistically have almost no chance of going in. But that's is where I have the disconnect. Most people don't want realism, they want to "win" the game. And randomness might take that out of their hands. That being said, I don't disagree with your physics points and would prefer true physics based rim interaction.

[KenXCarson]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

Someone pointed this out to me earlier, and it's honestly very noticeable and kinda annoying lol. You can't ignore it once someone brings it to your attention. I wonder if they would bother patching it, because lord knows I'd be super persistent if they could fix it.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

They patched make variety into the game last year after complaints that there were too many swishes. Shot timing (greens) has no impact on this.

Not sure what happened this year though, Seems like a design choice.

It feels like they may have tried something around the end of season 2 because for about a week the rim/net wouldn’t move at all. Purely speculation though.


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[sirdez]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

I find lowering user shot timing can help with getting a few more "rim" makes.

[blashinsky]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

Went back and played 2K15 on my PS5 and it's incredible, toilet bowl baskets, ball bouncing in the rim and falling. Night and day, looked so much better

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[cch99]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

When did they change it? I still have 2k16. Thinking of installing it.


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[blashinsky]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

When did they change it? I still have 2k16. Thinking of installing it.


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I looked at 2K17 and it had great variety too, don't know why they took it out. The constant all net baskets are too much


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[AIRJ23]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

I’m back to 2K23 and there’s a huge variety of different makes. The exclusive swishes is one of many issues with 2K24.

[cch99]

Every basket is a swish now

I played a game of 2k16 last night. The rim interaction was way better. It really makes it feel like 2k24 doesn’t even have real rim physics.

Did a spin towards baseline into a hook shot with Festus Ezeli on the right block. Hit the rim, bounced to the other side, bounced up, sat for a split second then fell in. Had a couple other that dropped in because of rim physics that you never see in 2k24. My guess is they had to nerf rim physics to get greens to ever hit the rim and make sure they go in. Really was enjoyable.

On a side note had a couple 2 on 1 fast breaks as well where the cpu actually went to the hole off ball and I got layups. Looked like try fastbreak.


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[doorknobb]

Re: Every basket is a swish now

They patched make variety into the game last year after complaints that there were too many swishes. Shot timing (greens) has no impact on this.

Not sure what happened this year though, Seems like a design choice.

It feels like they may have tried something around the end of season 2 because for about a week the rim/net wouldn’t move at all. Purely speculation though.


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They tweaked the order determining whether the shot went in/showing that the shot went in to the player/at what point after the ball is shot can its trajectory still be modified a few times. They can’t really happen at the same time and the most natural way ends up making defense, particular perimeter defense, way harder when there’s latency. This is the first year where they seemed to have settled on a system where a degree of impossible jedi mindtrickery isn’t entirely necessary for the player to contest a shot, but the flip side is really making the underlying mechanics and the appearance of physics essentially detached and since the game largely operates in a black box fashion, it’s also one that would least likely to be regarded widely as a bug but as a feature.

Honestly I doubt there will be a definitive fix since they’re really going for a goldilocks type solution and I guess they’ve landed on this for the year. I think it was 2k21 next-gen when halfcourt shots were almost too easy to make. Since last year they put in animation specific to shooting from the center circle that causes your player to stumble and miss in a manner that I can only conclude so people wouldn’t report the nerfing as a bug over and over again. All these are design choices. They might be weird and sometimes counterintuitive, but goldilocks can easily be written not as “just right” but “wrong for everyone in equal measure in different ways”. I think almost every AAA title studio shoots for that these days. This isn’t Stardew Valley, after all. They also need to onboard new players in an online environment that they know is toxic and problematic and difficult to moderate since the toxicity frequently is linked to their largest sources of income, so this milquetoast but at least working solution seems to at least be the easiest solution. If nobody is happy but no faction is so pissed off as to boycott the game for an actual cause, then they’ve essentially hit the sweet spot.

[cch99]

Every basket is a swish now

At the end of the day it comes down to catering to the online crowd. Online crowd wants it to be all about stick skills with no randomness. I am shocked they still call fouls to be honest. That means half-court and beyond shots never go in. Greens always go in. They just make the green area smaller for guys with lower ratings.



I'm guessing Sim guys like most of us here would prefer ratings mattering the most and the user having some input even on shots but realizing you can still get lucky bounces. And, that a player like Shaq isn't going to hit threes at a high rate even If you green it every single time. So they added the shot contest and shot timing sliders. Unfortunately this "balance" they added leads to some really awkward rolls on the rim and basically knowing certain shots are never going in by a lucky bounce or due to rim physics.



I imagine a scenario where there are multiple sets of rim physics is not doable or they have to put resources where they feel are needed the most and haven't figured out how to do it.



One thing about playing 2k16 is it still had simulation or arcade as choices. Playing just one game there were a few things that stood out as I would say better sim-wise. Rim Physics, fast breaks, realistic steals without spamming the steal button.