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Fifa 14 has exposed a lasting and often ignored design flaw in the NBA 2k series

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Old 01-16-2014, 03:58 PM   #9
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Re: Fifa 14 has exposed a lasting and often ignored design flaw in the NBA 2k series

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Originally Posted by alabamarob
Good post. I only disagree with the speed and change of direction of bigs comment. The bigs are to nimble on next gen. Current gen has a good representation of speed and on ball defense. Bring back sig dribbling so that every guard can't get to the rack like cp3 also.
I agree here that the speed is an issue, not so much off ball. It's really apparent in fast break. I can't chase down a big with a guard in the open court, that's a problem. I'm talking a big who is dribbling the ball down the court at that.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:19 PM   #10
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Re: Fifa 14 has exposed a lasting and often ignored design flaw in the NBA 2k series

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Entertaining read, enjoyed the hyperboles about the medicine ball/sloth and all that..but you cant just put a throwaway line about how its harder to replicate contact in basketball, and subsequently ignore that fact in the next couple of paragraphs...basketball and soccer are two very different sports...

As of 2K12 and every basketball game before it, basketball games relied heavily on two man animations, 2K13 was a start, in that there weren't nearly as many, but there weren't enough defensive animations to counter the offensive ones, and right now Live 14 is in the same position (which is why I look forward to seeing what they do in 15).....as much grief as we want to give 2k14, it's one of the best as fair as contact to date...are there still traces of canned animations, times where animations miss or don't blend properly? Yes, absolutely....but you can't say "Hey, look at this football, soccer, baseball game", you have to look at where we are as far as basketball....but I think we are on our way there...

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I’m a pragmatic person. I tend to over-quantify stuff. I’m doing it now. Most of what I brought up was in relation to design.

If you compare onball defense in both games EA Canada did a better job of designing and building a foundation to improve on. Design is choice. I do respect how those choices are impeded in this case by a more difficult sport to capture. I generally agree about the physics. But its not just physics.

You don’t have good athletes with poor athletic ratings in Fifa. You don’t have mediocre athletes that move like they are trying out for Biggest Loser. It is up and down the roster in NBA 2k right next to the stars, rookies and guys who just look like athletes sporting overrated athletic ratings. It was a choice to remove the stance in 2k4, it was a choice to bring back 2k3s stance back for 6 and 7 while it was abused by super sliding offense, made it sticky in 8, slow and hard to control in 9, slightly better in 10 decent in 11 harder to control in 12, 13 with a decent control and nice speed boost in CG 2k14 before going back to 2k13’s slow stance in NG. While design spun in circles for a decade they could have developed a better foundation for its physics engine so they only get a half pass in respect to how difficult it is to capture animations and physics in a basketball game. The Matthews/Durant example was the one I’m most forgiving of. Besides the physics I could repeat everything from ratings to the dumbing down of the CPU’s onball defense as examples of choice and design gone wrong.

Visual Concepts would be wise to take note of Fifa’s physics and its defensive stance.

Last edited by Kaanyr Vhok; 01-16-2014 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:52 PM   #11
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Re: Fifa 14 has exposed a lasting and often ignored design flaw in the NBA 2k series

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Originally Posted by alabamarob
2 things.

1) I dont even look at combine sprint numbers, because I dont think they represent a players game speed. Especially for big men who put on significant weight once they hit the league. I would need to know the sportuv or sportvu (can't remember which one) to find out the sprint speeds of a player to decide what there speed should be.
Count Lopez’s steps at halfcourt in the block on Kobe and the video where Wall out runs him. He is at least one step slow. You add that step and he is still in front of Wall thus the 43 rating is too slow. If I was a scientist I would provide this as evidence that combine sprints which are done in a gym wearing gym shoes are fairly accurate reflections on how fast a player will run in a game.

Exhibit B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuHJ3tAuPbA
Nene had guard speed at the combine. He has guard speed in the NBA even while dribbling.

When bigs put on weight if they want to stay in the league its going to be muscle and it wont slow them down. If Rudy Gobert puts on 15 pounds he isn’t going to slow down. Now if Demarcus Cousins puts on 15 pounds that’s different but he is no more likely to gain it and get slower than lose it and get faster.


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2) I agree that the speed ratings on the game stink. But andrew bynum and Aaron gay are slow and cant move well. Most bigs use their length to defend in a half court setting, not speed and quickness. Until the game adds an acceleration and deceleration rating I think cg is the best we will get. Its not bad imo.
Aaron Gray had one of the slowest sprint at the combine and Bynum has bad knees. I have no problem with them being slow just not Big Looser slow.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:57 PM   #12
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Re: Fifa 14 has exposed a lasting and often ignored design flaw in the NBA 2k series

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I agree here that the speed is an issue, not so much off ball. It's really apparent in fast break. I can't chase down a big with a guard in the open court, that's a problem. I'm talking a big who is dribbling the ball down the court at that.
If they go through that scoop animation it gives them a speed boost. Thats my only guess. Not really seeing that issue outside of the scoop boost.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:26 PM   #13
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Re: Fifa 14 has exposed a lasting and often ignored design flaw in the NBA 2k series

PHYSICS! Thats what ive wanted in.2k for years Kaanyr, especially under the basket and in the paint in general. Its still not there. Animations still take over.

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Old 01-16-2014, 09:53 PM   #14
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Re: Fifa 14 has exposed a lasting and often ignored design flaw in the NBA 2k series

Fifa really isnt the end all in physics for 2ksports to be mindful of.

The just have to focus on the transitional animations they are lacking.

NBALive has to as well although Nba 2k14 looks about 50% better animation wise than Nba live.

fifa with next gen was able to unlock some of these extra transitional animations but still need MORE as does NBA 2k and madden and NBA Live

What i dont understand and what i feel that fifa has behind it is that its a ONLINE game so player input via controller has to be instantaneous and that why fifa still looks arcadey in some parts so i would want fifa to be a beacon for speed or for animation smoothness either so he "fasntness or repsonisveness your talking about fifa having is actually NOT lifelike but what WE as cheesers online want which INSTANT fastness not realism

If they add transitional animations to make that responisveness has that realistic reaction we as gamers will not look at it as hitches or input lag but rather REAL animation interactions WE have to deal with being so real
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:15 PM   #15
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Re: Fifa 14 has exposed a lasting and often ignored design flaw in the NBA 2k series

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Fifa really isnt the end all in physics for 2ksports to be mindful of.

The just have to focus on the transitional animations they are lacking.

NBALive has to as well although Nba 2k14 looks about 50% better animation wise than Nba live.

fifa with next gen was able to unlock some of these extra transitional animations but still need MORE as does NBA 2k and madden and NBA Live

What i dont understand and what i feel that fifa has behind it is that its a ONLINE game so player input via controller has to be instantaneous and that why fifa still looks arcadey in some parts so i would want fifa to be a beacon for speed or for animation smoothness either so he "fasntness or repsonisveness your talking about fifa having is actually NOT lifelike but what WE as cheesers online want which INSTANT fastness not realism

If they add transitional animations to make that responisveness has that realistic reaction we as gamers will not look at it as hitches or input lag but rather REAL animation interactions WE have to deal with being so real
Have you played next gen Fifa?

If you kick at a ball while someone is running up on you and your knee hits their jaw the ref will pause to examine the player The player that gets hit will react in an unscripted animation. An unscripted collision that that registers impact in a vulnerable location being the jaw resulting in an unscripted stagger with an AI that records it.

Its this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tVYL-EqbdA
without the blood

This is not 2011 Fifa. That responsiveness and the speed is life like. That was the issue with NBA 2k7. The momentum reacts well to the speed, the players take exact steps to build their speed. Fifa has issues. I can point to areas where its unrealistic. The movement of the players is not one of those areas.
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:39 PM   #16
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Re: Fifa 14 has exposed a lasting and often ignored design flaw in the NBA 2k series

Good read and surprisingly easy to read. You write well.

I also agree. Defense definitely needs work and while I am getting better, I noticed a few holes as well. I play on HOF sim.

While slower players are definitely too slow, I notice on certain difficulties they are sped up and often warped in from of you. Or can catch you on a fast break. This feels very cheap and unnatural.

Playing defense can also get quite frustrating with the "bouncing off". Too often will I be playing good defense against a player and try to intense D like some to me when the shot clock gets low. Only to literally bounce off the player freeing him up to do literally anything he wants.
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