HOF Sim - Too Easy?

[Crookid]

Quote: Originally Posted by mythreesons

Not trying to start and arguement, but what about your HOF games... didn't you say they were "almost too easy" as well. I'm FAR from HOF level, but when they become too easy - or any level for that matter - that's when it would be time for me to put it away.

Doesn't sound like you're trying to argue at all and that's actually a good question.

It has been becoming a bit too easy as I only lose about 4 games out of 25. I'm starting to move over to other modes like My Team and such but I still do have fun playing HOF especially on My Career as I challenge myself and want to get my character into the Hall of Fame. Might as well since I play the difficulty, heheh.

Right now what I'm perfecting is ally oops. I'm pretty close to mastering it as I've thrown 14 successful ones last game and only 4 were on fast breaks (without signature skill. You don't need it with my fool proof method). Once that's done I'll move onto something else I feel I'm lacking skill in.

[El_Poopador]

@op what are your averages for your my career player?

[The 24th Letter]

IMO the "CPU playing smarter" shouldn't be tied to difficulty at all...that should be tied to settings like "Simulation, Casual etc." and 2k should continue to tweak those.

To me, if you're increasing "difficulty" past a certain level, you're asking for artificial boosts....you're simply raising the difficulty of the game...

[SPRINGS03]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

IMO the "CPU playing smarter" shouldn't be tied to difficulty at all...that should be tied to settings like "Simulation, Casual etc." and 2k should continue to tweak those. To me, if you're increasing "difficulty" past a certain level, you're asking for artificial boosts....you're simply raising the difficulty of the game...

I disagree, i think difficulty should be achieved in more realistic ways. I mean ok, if you're saying asking for harder game should just mean artificial boost, why not make it so playing at higher difficulties makes it so the computer starts every game with a 20 point lead or something? Handicapping does not equal true difficulty IMO.

[El_Poopador]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

IMO the "CPU playing smarter" shouldn't be tied to difficulty at all...that should be tied to settings like "Simulation, Casual etc." and 2k should continue to tweak those. To me, if you're increasing "difficulty" past a certain level, you're asking for artificial boosts....you're simply raising the difficulty of the game...

i disagree. i think ai should be the focus of the difficulty levels. think of it this way:

if im playing on rookie i most likely dont have a firm grasp on what im doing. so there should be a lot more margin for error on my part. the cpu should maybe miss assignments on defense or execute poorly on offense. things that can help me become acclimated to the nba game.

as i move up in difficulty they should still make mistakes that would be obvious to those who really know the nba. on a dribble drive have two defenders collapse on me in addition to my own. this means that two of my shooters can be either open on the wings or cutting to the basket with an open passing lane. just the same my own teammates should immediately notice openings and take advantage (cutting to the basket when their defender isnt looking or setting an offball screen to open up a shooter) so i can see where potential openings might be when i decide to move up.

it should do things to make me see how to make decisions. as i get further up into allstar and superstar those mistakes are still there but to a much lesser extent. they dont make as many stupid mistakes (although they are still there) and they are quicker to react (but with human timing). when i move to the hof level they should play like an nba team. dribble drives should not result in all players collapsing into the paint but still being able to defend the perimeter. it should be a smart collapse.

artificially increasing stats doesnt really help the player; it becomes more frustrating than anything else. at that point it just seems like youre winning games because the other team had a bad shooting night and you had a good shooting night. then when you move up to that hof level the cpu never has a bad shooting night and since you never learned how to properly combat that you get frustrated.

one thing i think would greatly help the ai issues would be the human timing i mentioned earlier. the cpu reacts (almost psychically) much more quickly than a human would and pretty much has eyes in the back of their heads. if my defender is looking in the opposite direction i should be able to move away without him noticing immediately. if im dribbling the ball the cpu should react to my dribble not my button input. same with passing. true footplanting would also help in this area.

this is what i think they should be striving for when it comes to difficulty levels. inflating attributes seems more like its just taking the easy way out.

[The 24th Letter]

It's not what i'm saying, its what's been done for years.

In older 2k games, you used to be able to see the sliders move with the difficulty...at All Star the user\cpu sliders were dead even...beyond that they'd climb near 90 for the CPU while yours stood neutral. It isnt just a 2k thing, This is a video game thing. In a fighting games highest level, your A.I opponent will use the cheaper tactics, cancel out your moves at a crazy rate, they wont all the sudden inherit the intelligence of a pro player and break you down with studied tactics. Action games are going to put more enemies in that hallway you have to through and boost their health, not implant intricate strategy into each member to tatically take you down. I dont know why we expect different from sports games.

I am definitely not saying that A.I should not be a high priority and constantly tweaked by devs, but as that difficulty goes up, we should know whats to be expected..

[El_Poopador]

oh yea im not saying 2k is the only company guilty of this by any means. im just saying that what i described is what the difficulty levels should do and what direction the devs should be trying to take.

i mean if im playing on rookie and i consistently leave ray allen alone in the corner i expect the cpu to pass to him and for him to knock it down. it should just take them another second or two to realize that hes open. but if he just misses the shot because his attribute has been lowered then im not learning to not leave him open. im instead learning that its ok to leave a knockdown shooter alone in the corner. then once i get up on the higher difficulty im wondering why i cant stop them from hitting threes.

on the other side if i force a pass into the paint (on rookie) and my player not only catches the pass but makes the shot in heavy traffic im learning that i can easily pass into the paint with no repercussion. but then when i move that difficulty up all of a sudden every pass i throw is being stolen and im getting blown out because i never learned how to run a proper offense.

[Coach2K]

Quote: Originally Posted by El_Poopador

on the other side if i force a pass into the paint (on rookie) and my player not only catches the pass but makes the shot in heavy traffic im learning that i can easily pass into the paint with no repercussion. but then when i move that difficulty up all of a sudden every pass i throw is being stolen and im getting blown out because i never learned how to run a proper offense.

I'm playing extensively on rookie level at the moment and that's the sense I get from the game now so I feel it does do that to a large degree now.

I'm not sure how to properly improve difficulty but I do agree that the CPU reacts to input rather than player movement which is flaw IMO.

As an example I might be double teamed in the corner and decide to pass out. I can tell from slow replays that the moment I press pass the CPU player immediately leaves and races to defend almost beating the ball there. This action happens a small moment before player movement would tip the defender off. In real life the doubler in the corner would probably stay there and another guy would rotate.

If anything, I experience more frustration with spacing, speed and distance covered by defenders than I prefer which I suppose might be reflected in the numbers since I haven't studied these behind the scenes boosts every body complains about.

I still feel the boosts are immaterial. With proper spacing and execution, they are kind of negated after some time and study. And contrary to popular opinion every CPU player doesn't play like Michael Jordan as some people claim although it's possible a lot of the time.

In the end, no matter how they change the way difficulty is represented people will complain if it's harder in any fashion.

The one main issue I have with 2K is that at least in current gen and before, you could customize the way a team plays with slider adjustments to conform a team to your playstyle rather conform your playstyle to that team. This also means you can make subpar teams play above their head and this is where a lot of people feel they get the shaft the most playing other users on line just like people complain about the hof CPU.

And to further extend that they want to be able to use the same playstyle on every difficulty level when you can't do that and be successful either. Shots and passes you can make on rookie won't go in or get through.

This also means that even with great skill, you probably shouldn't be able to take a team like the Bucks and expect to beat all the elite teams with it nearly every time set foot on the floor at the highest level.

As Mars eluded to earlier, hof level should be looked at as a tool to improve decision making. Better spacing, better shot selection, better defense and just better recognition in general and as a level to bring more refinement to your play than anything else and not necessarily be an "every day" mode to get the most enjoyment for your money for most people.